Sept.15th WT - WT Society uses Guilt & Fear to Avoid Friendship & Internet

by flipper 105 Replies latest jw friends

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  flipper

  O.K. Good morning ! How are you all doing ? I'll respond to pg. 3 while I cook breakfast ! LOL ! Hopefully pg. 4 too. Man this thread grew ! Thanks for all your responses !

  AGONUS- Very well put by you. I also feel the witnesses and GB see the face of Ray Franz in all of us EX-witnesses who reveal the REAL truth about the pretend " truth ". The internet is the GB's worst nightmare come true. They can't control their JW members from looking at it- and that drives them crazy. ANYTHING they can't control- drives them insane.

  BIZZY BEE- I'm sure many witnesses ARE like your aunt and claim that they're careful using Facebook or other internet access. But the WT society IS digging themselves a REALLY big hole by continuing the high control measures in insisting the Internet is evil and to be avoided. Many witnesses will get tired of the control and manipulation in time. Some will allow themselves to be controlled- but I feel those will be the OLDER witnesses, not the up and coming younger witnesses ( under 35 ) crowd who are much too smart and informed by the Internet to listen to old farts from Brooklyn anymore. And that's a good thing !

  NANCY DREW- WT society by pushing this information is turning JW members into emotionless robots . That's what the design is by the GB. If they can keep rank and file JW's from having what normal humans consider to be " fun " and " good times " together - then they can control and manipulate them into keeping their nose to the grindstone by pushing work, work, work. Or field service, field service, field service. WT society is concerned about the ORGANIZATION's needs- not individual members needs. Really sad, isn't it ?

  BALTAR447- Good point you make. I'm sure the WT Society is getting plenty of complaints about the Book study being changed to the Kingdom halls. But it is a way of the WT society keeping members from getting too emotionally connected to one another. Keeps them from being too close of friends while out of eyesight of the elders in the Kingdom hall. Pretty twisted - but the mental and emotional beatings WILL continue as long as the society controls these people's lives. Sad.

  MAGWITCH- Very true what you say. WT society blames the Internet for bringing people loneliness- yet many JW members are VERY lonely sitting in big crowds at kingdom halls then go home if they are single to an empty apartment or house. The ONLY social interaction that is emphasized by elders is field service and talking to others at the kingdom hall. It's really shallow reasoning . How are people supposed to exist without friends outside the kingdom hall ? Very unsensitive organization to people's REAL needs.

  SKEETER 1- You stated, " Normal churches realize that people are social by nature. " Very true - however there is NOTHING normal about Jehovah's Witnesses and the WT society . As you mention- they are a cult designed to control people and take away and remove member's individual power over their lives. I find it interesting that your JW relatives are disturbed over the stopping of home book study's. I hope MORE witnesses get disturbed by these tendencies and stop attending meetings due to the stoic and inhumane rules.

  WING COMMANDER- I agree with you. The rules of the WT society DO create total nutcases. Creates insanity among members. I feel MANY members are mentally off. At least that old girlfriend of you'rs got you to start thinking. And I agree- the sheep in Jehovah's Witnesses are getting the hell beat out of them - mentally and emotionally.

  MEETING JUNKIE NO MORE- That is REALLY creepy that the elders wife asked if you had proper insurance before having a informal gathering at your house ! Just weird ! Elders are becoming ever more legality conscious like the GB and WT lawyers ! It's scary really. And the point you make about single witnesses is very true. So sad that many go home to an empty house after meetings. Especially when they are told not to have non-witnesses as friends ! And only associate at meetings with JW " friends " . I mean what's a person to do ? Talk to imaginary invisible friends and bide their time masturbating in a corner or something ? A lonely way to go indeed.

  LEPRECHAUN- The WT society is so cloaked in their own " holiness " and " piety " they can't see through the veneer of it all. Disgusting.

  WHA HAPPENED ? - Exactly. We will stay out of the WT society's religion as long as they stay out of our personal lives. Well put. If they start harassing me - I'll get in their faces again. Since I won my appeal JC meeting overturning my DFing 3 years ago- they've never bothered me since !

  GL TIREBITER- I think the point of it all is that the WT society wants it's members to just be " cogs in the WT machine. " I think they are losing so many younger JW's so fast- that they don't cARE about the impression they make to unbelieving relatives anymore. There's no time for that. The loss of young witnesses leaving is so alarming that they are sending out Mayday type efforts to retrieve them !

  Your statement , " It's not an either/or choice " for the congregation to NOT serve as a social club. I agree. But the WT society through their black & white thinking forces the issue to be an either/or choice by how they word their sentences to these witnesses ! It's like they FORCE witnesses to see it their way- or hit the highway ! Control, control.

  CANTLEAVE- Interesting point you make about the YOUNGER JW guys you know won't pay attention to this info. I agree. Younger people are becoming more disconnected with letting the WT organization run and ruin their lives. So there is hope for them. However the older 40 + witnesses will continue to heed and be in fear of what the WT society continues to say on these subjects for if they've been JW's a long time- they'll have more to lose in family & friends by not heeding the advice given.

  CLARITY- I'm glad you're enjoying the thread ! Lots of good responses so far.

  BILLY the EX-BETHELITE- I used to find that true like you when I was younger in the witness organization. If problems arose with young people drinking or fornicating at gatherings- the elders would just shut down aLL young people get togethers. No reasonableness whatsoever. Just paranoid overkill. Then you just get paranoid cliques meeting together who cover up each others drinking and fornicating ! LOL ! But it really just fosters the distrust among JW members and THAT is what I think the WT society is after in the first place. To stir up distrust in fellow members.

  SOLDIER 77- Beatings will continue. I'm sure there is a Bible verse somewhere about that. LOL !

  PISTOFF- Dr, Strangelove reference indeed. Agonus has some good ones for sure

  I'll answer pg. 4 in a few minutes. Gotta go cook my wife some breakfast ! Peace.
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  ziddina

  (From Flipper...) : "JW FACTS- It is so repulsive what the WT society does, I agree. Looking down on " worldly peple " socializing. Making it seem redundant and trivial. I mean what's WRONG with that ? It would help if witnesses became more emotionally connected to their friends. ..."

  WHAT friends????

  (Sorry... Couldn't resist..)

  Those "friends only as long as you remain a "TRUE" believer, never doubt, never question, never get 'in trouble' " people???

  Yeahhhhh....

  With 'friends' like those, who needs enemies???

  Zid
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  flipper

  O.K. Now for you pg. 4 responders ! Just a minute. Gotta go turn over my potatoes I'm cookin'.

  MISERYLOVESELDERS- Very good point that we used to spend SO MUCH time with other witnesses- who would wANT to spend time with them away from meetings ? I'm glad you are spending time with non-witness friends from work. That will help you to broaden your horizons and friendships for sure ! Good for you.

  SUNSPOT- I remember the WT society saying what you were saying as well. WE were as witnesses encouraged to draw closer to JW friends in the 1970's early 1980's being told we'd have to trust each other going through Armageddon together. I look back on it now- I wouldn't trust many of those people as far as I can spit ! But the WT society is definitely telling them preaching the kingdom is more important than being close friends together.

  BALTAR477- The point of it is this Baltar - WT society doesn't want Jehovah's Witnesses being close to one another emotionally or otherwise unless it directly involves Kingdom interests or ( WT society interests) . It's actually that simple. If JW's start thinking on their own outside of how the WT society counsels them- then they are considered a dangerous liability thinking together with an open mind. So WT society HAS to control witnesses to think ONLY in the aspect of being together for service or meetings. Again- one reason they discontinued in home Book studies.

  SNOWBIRD- Fear & guilt exactly are the tactics used by abusive humans AND abusive mind control organizations ! You nailed it.

  SCOTT77- I agree with you. I think it will lead to a boiling point where witnesses will begin questioning just HOW MUCH control the WT society has over their personal lives. Let's put it this way - I HOPE it makes them start questioning it.

  BEWARE of FALSE PROPHETS- You are welcome. Glad you like the info on here. WT society really IS shooting itself in the foot with this one ! Telling people the meetings are not a " social club " just sounds cold, condescending, and uncaring towards it's members. It will definitely push out lots of younger ones who are tired, SO tired of the WT society telling them how to run their personal lives. Good ! I hope many more start exiting ! Including my JW daughters 23 and 22 !

  MARVFAYBENZ- So they NEVER allowed goody night in France ? Sounds pretty cold over there. I have heard also that in Hawaii they ALWAYS had get togethers and nice parties. I knew some Hawaiian people in California and they were some of the most hospitable people I ever knew . WT society doesn't know what it's doing dividing people up and splitting them up. It's evil.

  MARY- Good points. I think there is a lot of jealousy between elders and the fact your Book study was attracting lots of attenders due to friendliness and after book study socializing- caused elders to start squawking at one another about it. the GB is so stoic anyway that their personality just permeates right on down into elders and into individual members in the congregations. It's what I used to observe when I went to meetings years ago. It always amazed me how stoic and unemotional certain JW's would be who I knew. Now I know WHY they were that way- they are TRAINED to be that way from the top of the organization downward. Sick puppies
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  Jadeen

  Growing up, my parents had people (about 10 to 20) over at least twice a month. Us kids would invite our friends and my parents would invite a mix of people- those viewed as "spiritually weak" because it would encourage them, some "national average" families, and usually an elder's family (the friendlier elders, not the jerks). I'm pretty sure that every person at the Hall was invited, at least once.

  The congregation also had picnics and played volleyball, two-hand-touch football, and baseball.

  I don't hear about the congregation having those any more. Anytime my mom mentions a get-together it's for a reason- wedding, graduation, anniversary, but nothing just for fun. They also don't invite a lot of people over after my dad got chewed out about a young couple eloping. (The couple did not do anything at my parents place, but they had both been there once. Yeah, I don't get it either.)

  On the weekends, there's a couple at the Hall that invite my husband and I over for dinner and card games (Ok, we gossip too). I hadn't really thought about it, but it's usually just the 4 of us. I think it says a lot about the state of socializing at the Hall when an MS and his wife socialize more with the inactive non-baptized chick (me) and her worldly husband than with fellow Witnesses!
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  agonus

  Mary, I do indeed think this is a "sifting work" (puke). The WT knows they are losing control and are probably not only bracing for but instigating a mass exodus. They've shown no intentions of reforming for the better in any conceivable fashion and realize that only the ultra-hard-core will ultimately stay in for a long time at this point.
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  ziddina

  Beware of False Prophets said: "I really don't see how the WTS expects to grow at all the way they are lately. They must know that their "door-to-door" work doesn't do much in developed countries. ..."

  I've been re-reading Ray Franz' "Crisis of Conscience" - the brand-new 2004 version - and I'm in the chapter entitled "Tradition and Legalism"...

  If one chooses to read only one chapter of Ray Franz' book, I strongly recommend that chapter.

  In "Tradition and Legalism", chapter 5 - Ray Franz discusses the inefficient, unwieldy, clumsy and unresponsive method by which the Gov.Bod makes decisions on matters vital to the typical Witness...

  On page 116, first paragraph, he states, "If out of fourteen members present, nine favored removing the disfellowshipping offense "label" and only five favored retaining it, the majority was not sufficient to change the disfellowshipping label. Though a clear majority, the nine were not a two-thirds majority. (Even if there were ten of them favoring change this was still not enough, for though they would be two-thirds majority of the fourteen present, the rule was two-thirds majority of the total active membership, which during much of the time was seventeen.)....." [italics and parenthesis his...]

  [same page, paragraph two...] "That meant that the Witness taking the particular action or having the particular employmet involved would continue to be subject to disfellowshipping, even though a majority of the Body had made clear their feeling that he or she should not be!" [italics his...]

  Which is an incredibly clumsy way of doing "business"... This must be the reason that Watchtower policy seems to move at the pace of continental drift. Those who might want change or a more compassionate approach, or at least would be willing to support such, would be blocked by the lack of that "two-thirds" majority...

  That "numbers" game - for that is what it really is - would also make it easier for a hard-liner - like, say, Jaracz - to control the Gov.Bod by subtle manipulation and intimidation...

  Add to that clumsiness, the general attitude and intellectual malaise amongst the older members of the Gov.Bod that keeps them mentally and culturally 'stuck' in the 1950's, and one can see why they appear to be lumbering mental dinosaurs, at times...

  All the better to cause them to fall, eventually...

  Zid
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  jam

  It,s obvious that the borg.do not want the RF to think for themselves. Moses acknowledge this,

  in the laws he gave to Israel . On the seventh day , rest your ass and be refreshed.Exodus 23;12.

  Enjoy your day of rest, go on A picnic with your friends. The old saying all work and no play makes

  A dull life. I beleive the the reference of ass in Exodus has A double meaning.
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  flipper

  ZIDDINA- Of course I agree with you- there ARE no real friends inside the JW cult.. Ever since the early 1980's when Jaracz voice started being heard more authoritatively inside the GB any semblance of " compassionate approach " turned into " manipulation & intimidation " as the WT cult became even more staunch in their mind control tactics and use of fear to intimidate members. As we see- those tactics are still alive and well in 2010 .

  JADEEN- I'm glad to hear your parents did what they could within their power to bring people closer together. Good for them. It isn't the norm though. I just feel that the WT society is clamping down on ANY normal human relationships people have. It's dangerous and scary.

  AGONUS- I do believe the WT society is sifting through people to only retain hardcore believers. Any stragglers who sit on the fence they want booted out !

  JAM- Definitely the WT society does not want JW's thinking for themselves. It's too dangerous to the WT society's control methods. So they try restricting ANY fun or socializing witnesses do to stop any semblance of independent thinking in it's tracks. Pretty twisted
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  elderelite

  Wow... I have seen so many quotes in the past two months that make me say... "holy shit"! CULT ALERT CULT ALERT!!!! This is yet another one. but I tell you this. there will be JW's from new york to florida to california who will forgo get togethers to head out into the work. I was talking with a brother I had been in bethel with and we both were wondering how we ever got anything done with all the hampster wheel stuff we did. but of course thats the point. Its crazy that it took so long to see it. I promise there are going to be JW's in my own congregation cancelling gatherings and going out in service, saying "wow that was so much more refreshing than enjoying a day in the park with the kids" or " that was so much better than watching the game with the guys"... somebody get me the hell outa here...
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  wasblind

  So true elderelite,

  and the worst part is that they will say it's more refreshing,

  dang, even the creator took a break after all that creating