Something that's been on my mind for a while and I finally put into words.

by WontLeave 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • WontLeave
    WontLeave

    Should I Turn "Apostate"?

    When anyone is replying to a matter before he hears [it], that is foolishness on his part and a humiliation. – Prov 18:13

    This may seem like a very odd question, but I’m gradually becoming less and less surprised when I meet someone – in person or online – who has probably mulled this very question over. As many have learned, the governing body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (who have assumed the title of "the faithful and discreet slave", mentioned by Jesus at Mat 24:45) has occasionally played fast and loose with Scripture – whether assigning absolutes to general statements or total misapplication to mean something totally contrary, definitions of words (e.g. "truth", "apostasy", "light", etc.), and the entire ideal of a Christian attitude toward things like works, love, organization, and submission. Granted, in my experience, most who leave (or are removed from) the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses are out for the sake of pursuing wrong behavior. There exist a number of people, however, who have conscientiously opposed dubious doctrine, man-made rules, presumptuous interpretation of prophecy, and outright lies. Many of these have been labeled as "apostates" and either been forcibly ejected or voluntarily chosen to cease association with an organization so riddled with problems. Then, there are yet others who realize the problems, but “keep silent before Jehovah and wait longingly for him" (Psa 37:7) to rectify matters, for a time when "he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples." (Isa 2:4) God does encourage us to be "carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so" (Acts 17:11) and wants sheep, not lemmings blindly following the interpretations of his word, by men. We are under obligation to know the truth, as our Creator intended it. Even "the Society", in its literature, has many times said to "make the truth your own". Of course, by this, they mean to make their version of "truth" your own, but the point remains that probably every church at least pays lip service to the obvious concept of not just taking their word for it. These organizations know that while Americans primarily claim to be Christian, the majority admit (we can only guess at how many are just ashamed to admit) they rarely or never read the Bible [1] . This separation between supposedly-Bible-based religions and any first-hand knowledge of the Bible itself gives great opportunity to advance many unscriptural ideas totally under the radar of most of the people.

    This writing will not argue any specifics of doctrine, for or against individual beliefs, as there are already too many of those writings available and whatever someone chooses to believe, they can find "evidence" for it. This is a personal essay, drawing from personal experiences, personal opinions (while thoroughly researched), personal observations, and personal feelings. In the vastness of humanity, I'm confident some will be able to see parallel bits of their journey through life in my words. The way I see it, I have no dog in this race: If someone accepts the Bible as truth, the Jehovah's Witnesses' teachings as truth, or rejects one or both out of hand, they're not my ideas being accepted or rejected. Only people who are emotionally immature require others to agree with them. Ones who are confident in their diligence to come to a proper and truthful conclusion on a subject don't require a "high-five" or "pat on the back" from others to stroke their egos. When I first read the Bible [2] , it was - and still is - with the sole purpose of knowing from the proverbial "horse's mouth" and not filtered through any religious leanings what it actually said. I had been familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses' teachings, as well as those of other "Christian" denominations. I also did much research to discover what many different churches believed. I decided to associate myself with whom I felt most closely believed and acted according to the Scriptures (at least in theory). This turned out to be Jehovah's Witnesses (in case you hadn't already guessed).

    It didn't take long to realize there are a lot of things that are not prominently spoken of by Jehovah's Witnesses. Only after close association with the members and exposure to the literature, many man-made rules, beliefs, and understandings started cropping up. Sadly, these man-made issues are felt to trump Scripture and are adamantly enforced. The attitude of "thought police", in that one can't even quietly believe Scripture where it conflicted with "light" from "the faithful and discrete slave" without being interrogated, became very disturbing and caught me completely by surprise. Interesting discoveries in my Bible reading where the Scriptures would lead me to remark in a way that I wasn't aware was contrary to Witness teachings, were causing me problems with my fellow Witnesses. They would attempt to "correct" my thinking and encourage me to "read this article", so my understanding would be sanitized to match that promoted by the organization's leadership. Granted, these were all minor details – in the grand scheme of things – which didn't change one bit how I worshipped my Creator, or understood and felt about him or his son. The fact is, it wasn't I, but they who made everything into an absolute, black-and-white, the-whole-universe-hinges-on-this-detail issue. Even subjects like blood transfusions, oral sex, 1914, etc. [3] pale in comparison to the reasons I had decided to cast my spiritual lot with this organization: The Trinity, Hellfire, an earthly eternity, etc. A true Christian must put God's commands and desires first; personal pleasure, trying to nail down dates for certain events, and even our own currently-finite lives are all disposable, if one chooses that path. Paul realized this when he wrote "If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all men most to be pitied." (1 Cor 15:19) Yes, if one really lives as a Christian aught and it's all wrong, that life is wasted.

    What many seem to find most disturbing is not the glaring mistakes of past or present doctrinal intricacies, but the 1984-esque way "new light" is bulldozed with no reference to the old "light", the seemingly unchristian way the ever-changing policies are strictly forced on the membership, the complete disregard for those who were rebuked or even thrown out for questioning a doctrine that is no longer even adhered to, and – most of all – the apparent arrogant nonexistence of anything remotely resembling admission or apology from those who create the hoops for others to jump through. Well, is this a reason to head for the hills, so to speak? Have they shown themselves to represent the wrong religion “by their fruits”? (Mat 7:15-20) Many of us have seen the literature and websites that answer a resounding “yes” to those questions, and understandably so. Even when Jesus said something the people didn’t like or agree with, they were quick to abandon him. (John 6:60) How much more so will people desire to leave an imperfect organization riddled with obvious problems – both doctrinally and with their attitude. But, as I said before, I found the Witnesses “most closely” represented the Bible; I never said perfectly. And if a legitimate, world-wide group existed that did, I would join it in a heartbeat. A small group just doesn’t cut it, because any single congregation could be cherry-picked of the best individuals to make a small group of honest-hearted Christians. But once that group grows, it comes to be at the mercy of the prevailing majority or power structure.

    One glaring observation of many – myself included – is the total unwillingness or inability of the leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses to realize or admit any self-application of lessons to be learned from the Pharisees. These were discussed a great deal by Jesus, throughout the Gospels. Something Jesus mentions in passing, once (“faithful and discreet slave”) is, however, pounced on with great voracity. When Jesus started his ministry, he was appalled to find his father’s sheep “skinned and thrown about” (Mat 9:35-36) by the leadership of the day. Jesus confronted that administration on several occasions calling them “hypocrites”, “offspring of vipers” “whitewashed graves”, etc. and said “YOU made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition.” [4] Jesus presented his followers with a purified view of his father and his requirements, stripped of the human pageantry, arrogance, and additions. The Pharisees noted this and would try to confront him and his followers about this: “Why is it your disciples overstep the tradition of the men of former times?” (Mat 15:2) Of course, nobody is going to call out the only-begotten son of God on his method of worship and not get put in his place. (Mat 15:6-9)

    Jesus is not walking the earth today, however, so if one decides to swim against the current and flaunt it, he’s pretty much on his own, to suffer the whims of imperfect and sometimes evil men, “because the inclination of the heart of man is bad from his youth up”. (Gen 8:21) We see the results of humans being in religious charge of other humans in witch hunts, the Crusades, the Inquisitions, and even currently (often in Muslim lands). Yes, “man has dominated man to his injury.” (Ecc 8:9) This actually started back up almost immediately after Jesus left the earthly scene. While the apostles were still alive and preaching, we read “Since we have heard that some from among us have caused YOU trouble with speeches, trying to subvert YOUR souls, although we did not give them any instructions.” (Acts 15:24) Paul also said “But because of the false brothers brought in quietly, who sneaked in to spy upon our freedom which we have in union with Christ Jesus, that they might completely enslave us.” (Gal 2:4) He further warned – making it clear things would only get worse – “I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” (Acts 20:29-30) Of course, the “Society” applies these things only to “Christendom” (other churches) and never admits any possibility of reference to itself. Is this the only possible point the Bible is trying to make?

    Even with all the corruption to his father’s teachings and all the hypocrisy among the clergy class, Jesus still called the temple “the house of my Father.” (John 2:16) He and the apostles preached in the temples and synagogues to God’s people, the Jews. (Luke 20:1; Acts 5:42) By the “faithful and discreet slave’s” own teaching, it wasn’t until 1919 (the current teaching) that Jesus ousted the churches from divine favor. This would indicate that up until then, the churches were allowed to act “in the name of God”. This mirrors the Pharisees, as Judaism was still the place to be, for true worship of the only true God, while Jesus walked the earth. So, would our Lord and the “head of every man” (1Cor 11:3) want us to leave his congregation when it becomes corrupted? Actually, no. In fact, Jesus even told his followers “all the things they tell YOU, do and observe.” (Matt 23:2-7) Sure, Jesus had the right as the high priest (even though the clergy class didn’t recognize it) to call out the Pharisees on their hypocrisy and teachings of men. Nowhere is it mentioned that he allowed his followers to, though. Jesus himself [5] “did not dare to bring a judgment against him [Satan] in abusive terms, but said: ‘May Jehovah rebuke you.’” (Jude 9) Even though he knew it was only a matter of time before he would be called on to oust Satan from Heaven, later bind him for 1000 years, then ultimately destroy him, Jesus wouldn’t overstep his place and criticize the most evil individual in existence. How much more should we hold our tongues and keep our opinions restrained, when dealing with imperfection and outright evil in the congregation.

    Jesus warned that his true followers would be hated by the nations, but he referred to more than just the “world” when warning of future problems. In Matt 21:33-41, Jesus uses a parable where he refers to the treatment of prophets before him and how he would ultimately be killed. By whom? The “nations”? No. The prophets and Jesus were mistreated, ignored, hated, and persecuted by God’s own people and we are warned “If they have persecuted me, they will persecute YOU also.” (John 15:20-22) So, history repeats itself. The Jews persecuted truth-bearers from the prophets down to Jesus. Even after seeing “Certainly this was God’s Son” (Matt 27:54), the Jews continued attacking Jesus’ followers, even under the color of (God’s) Law, in the Jewish high court, the Sanhedrin. (Acts 4:40-41) The apostles were already seeing the corruption of the Christian congregations during their lifetime, eventually climaxing into Bible burnings, torture, wholesale slaughter, disgusting doctrines with no Scriptural basis, etc. A new cleansing was in order and, in 1919 according to Witness doctrine, Jesus got rid of the corrupt old churches and adopted a new batch of followers.

    Just like after the Flood, people would be back to just as bad as they were before, or even worse, in short order. With this long history of God’s true place of worship being filled with corruption, dogma, unchristian feelings and attitudes, would it really be necessarily indicative of “false religion”, when the big things are right? The prophets and priests of the temple taught that Jehovah, not Baal, was the one to worship. The Jews kept teaching Jehovah was one God, when the Babylonians, Romans, and Greeks around them believed in many gods. The early congregations taught that Jesus was our Lord and Savior. The Witnesses still teach that no loving God would burn people for eternity. Even if some of the details are screwy, let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    According to Gal 6:5 “each one will carry his own load”, so we can’t allow the actions and teachings of others to stumble us or infringe on our zeal to worship God and follow Jesus the best we can. We can’t allow our pride to get us tangled up in “debates about words” “if any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion”. We’ll be wasting our time, anyway, because those are “mentally diseased”. (1Tim 6:3-5) Jesus and the apostles warned us about these people and what to do about them. They will have to bear the results of their actions and it would be a shame on our part to allow them to drag us down with them, by turning our back on God or his organization, no matter how much humans taint it. When he “should start to beat his fellow slaves”, Jesus “will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites.” (Matt 24:48-51) They have been warned “Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ.” (Matt 23:8-12) Jesus said “YOU are those who declare yourselves righteous before men, but God knows YOUR hearts; because what is lofty among men is a disgusting thing in God’s sight.” (Luke 16:14)

    Jesus told us that a “disgusting thing” “in a holy place” would be one way to know the end was very near for evil to be allowed to run unchecked and referred us to Daniel’s prophecies. Here, we read about how “he will actually go back and hurl denunciations against the holy covenant and act effectively”, “profane the sanctuary”, “put in place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation”, and “will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words”. We don’t want to “be made to stumble” and fall in “a refining work” that will “do a cleansing and to do a whitening, until the time of [the] end”. (Dan 11:30-35) Sure, all that can be applied to churches who slander God, by teaching things contrary to the Scriptures while claiming to be his representatives. But should we turn a blind eye when it happens in “a holy place”? God will allow us to be tested as to our faith in his word or adherence to the wisdom of men. We don’t want to choose “an operation of error” and “get to believing the lie.” (2Thes 2:11-12) We also don’t want the lies of blind guides to lead us into a pit. (Matt 15:14)

    If we fall prey to pride – because we “know better” – and leave God’s flock, choose to blindly follow the teachings of men because we are too lazy to learn the truth for ourselves, or completely throw our hands in the air and become an atheist out of frustration, don’t expect it to turn out well, because Jesus said “Look! I have forewarned YOU.” (Matt 24:23-25) Instead, remember “as these things start to occur, raise yourselves erect and lift YOUR heads up, because YOUR deliverance is getting near.” (Luke 21:28) This won’t be easy; in fact, it may be exhausting and seem impossible at times but, “let us not give up in doing what is fine, for in due season we shall reap if we do not tire out.” (Gal 6:9) Even though “many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another”, “many false prophets will arise and mislead many”, and “the love of the greater number will cool off”, keep in mind that “he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.” (Matt 24:10-13)


    [1] verified by a 4/27/2010 USA Today poll

    [2] I've also read the Qur’an and Book of Mormon

    [3] things often felt by many that Jehovah’s Witnesses have totally wrong

    [4] when “you” or “your” are capitalized in the English version of the New World Translation, it’s where the original text uses a second-person word that refers to a group rather than an individual.

    [5] called Michael the Archangel, when in Heaven, according to Jehovah’s Witness doctrine

  • mddriskell
    mddriskell

    I would say no to your question. Should I turn apostate. We know that Jehovhah is using the organization to further the preaching work. Would it be resonable to expect imperfect men to satisfy us. We know that mistakes have been and will be made by imperfect men, should we reject what we know to be the only organization that is trying even imperfectly to follow bible teaching as it should be followed. If your expecting men to satisfy your need for absolutes your just not going to find it, but Jehovah is using the ones trying there best however imperfectly to do and beleave and preach what is right.

  • agonus
    agonus

    There's no "turning". As not-Jesus, we're born apostate and we die apostate.

  • just n from bethel
    just n from bethel

    Welcome - and just a hint of advice that was given to me when first starting off (and I'm still guilty of it as well):

    Try condensing your thoughts into concise pointed statements, maybe just a few sentences or so. That way we can get the gist of it much quicker, then the discussion can go further with elaborations as needed. You started off with

    "Something that's been on my mind for a while and I finally put into words" - it would be great if those words were a little less in quantity. So for now - sorry, TLDNR - but welcome nonetheless.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Get busy living or get busy dying.

    Welcome!

  • Judge Dread
    Judge Dread

    I rarely, and I mean rarely, read posts that are soooooooo long.........................but I read this one.

    You thoughts are pretty much my thoughts. Maybe that's why.

    Judge Dread

  • The Finger
    The Finger

    I enjoyed reading your post with many fine points. I find in identifying myself as a JW I would be agreeing with all of the teachings. I prefer to be called Christian.

  • cskyjw.sun
    cskyjw.sun

    wountleave i share your sentiment

  • wobble
    wobble

    Welcome Wontleave,

    perhaps you will allow me to give you a tip.

    Paragraphs and spaces are your friends and make a post, especially a long one, much easier to read.

    As to the points you make, I get the impression you are saying that the WT/Jw's Organization has some connection to God and Truth,

    would I be right ?

    If so, what is your proof for that ?

  • yourmomma
    yourmomma

    the poster sounded like me right before i realized that the watchtower society was not God's organization. Before I realized that the watchtower was a false religion I was aware of alot of the problems, but did not view them as reasons to leave. It was not until I discovered that the entire foundation that the governing body claims its authority from is absolutly, demonstrably false.

    I also began to truly understand the weight of things like the blood issue, and how people are DYING......DYING because of a complete misapplication of scripture that will one day be changed just like the organ transplants were changed.

    Children are being RAPED.....RAPED by pedofiles and it has been factually proven by court records that the watchtower not only is covering it up, but disfellowshipping the victims for going to police and warning others in the congregation about child rapists.

    And then there is the fact that the watchtower has the same view of scripture that mormons, mulsims and atheists do. that it was corrupted by men and has things removed from it, such as the name Jehovah. If you are a Christian who is suposse to believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, that should pose a problem for you.

    Then there is how the Watchtower straight up adds and subtracts to the greek text of the new testament in the NWT when it doesnt support watchtower docterine.

    This poster above who wrote this essay is already an apostate since he has disagreements with the faithful slave.

    My question to him is after you research all these things I have written, and find out they are true, how can anyone think God has anything to do with this organization?

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