Something that's been on my mind for a while and I finally put into words.

by WontLeave 30 Replies latest jw friends

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  ataloa

  Wontleave, you sound so much like me when I was struggling for so long to stay “in”. That was the reasoning I used. I kept thinking of the man Jesus healed that the Pharisees were after questioning him about Jesus, and he had to be so careful about the words he used in his answers so as to remain a part of that organization and not get himself disfellowshipped. I thought that’s what I should do too. I tried to stay, but I could not worship in truth and spirit in all that oppression.

  There are other things taught in the Bible to also consider - “get out of her, my people, if you don’t want to share in her sins”. When you know harmful things, disgusting things are going on and you aren’t allowed to warn anyone, you are saying it’s alright by your silence. You ARE sharing in all those sins.

  Now everyone must do as their conscience dictates - some will leave and some will stay. It doesn’t necessarily mean they’ve left god. And some need to start all over from zero to know if they even believe there is a god. Some end up atheists. Most of these people are just searching for truth wherever it may be found. What we think today may not be what we think next year - it’s a journey.

  Apostate is the society’s word for anyone who disagrees with anything they teach; people here jokingly use that word on each other because it is how we’re branded by your organization, whether true or not.

  Perhaps you think wtbts is god’s organization because of the “big” things - no trinity or hellfire, earthly abode, etc. (And those are things I still agree with, if there‘s a god, which I am not sure about). But really, when you think about it, aren’t the “big” things these - to love God with our all and our neighbor as ourself.

  Truly I have come to think the ones that know how to love and respect their neighbors are God’s organization, no matter what their doctrine is. And I mean those who truly get it. The principles Jesus taught are right down there in their heart, part of the fiber of their very being, so as to not have to run to a book and look up every little thing so as to know how to act in every situation. Even some people who don’t believe in god naturally know how to treat others with love.

  About the pride thing, it can be far more prideful and self-defeating to stay in an organization like that, than to have the humility to admit we were duped. If I hadn’t swallowed that pride, I’d still be there.
• 

  elderelite

  Cant Leave,

  Just to clarify, are you staying or leaving the WT? I sort of got lost towards the end...
• 

  Soldier77

  Like someone else stated, long post, might want to be more concise next time. But... I did read the whole thing. I felt like you just before I had an epiphany, that this organization, this Watchtower Bible and Tract Society™ is not sponsored by God.

  Am I an apostate? No. I am not opposing God or his son Jesus. I oppose the WTBTS though, they do not teach truth, they are nothing but a pharisaical, hypocritical group of old men with an inferiority complex.

  A lot of your points hit home and resonated with me, because a lot of your points were points that I made in my journey to find the real truth.
• 

  Quando

  I actually read that whole post, I can't believe it.

  That was quite a time frame you covered from Gen. 8:21 (1513 BCE) to 1 Tim. 6: 3-5 (61-61CE)

  How many years is that? I am not that good with math.

  I am impressed that you summed up your thoughts in 12 paragraphs.

  When I was reading it, I could not help to think that you can pick any subject on the planet and create an essay on that subject with a bible scripture not just religions.

  I am just sayin...Welcome to the board
• 

  bez

  i agree with soldier 77, many of your points hit home to me which is probably why i read throught the whole thing too.

  I echo elderlite, i got bit lost towards end..you stayin or you leavin?
• 

  Hadit

  Welcome WontLeave! Keep questioning and looking. This oranization is hiding pedophiles, breaking up families and, as you noticed, twisting scriputures to fit their preconceived ideas. One of the main things that did it for me was the lack of love and Jesus said "they will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves." Doctrines aside - love was not there.

  Wishing you all the best in your search.

  Hadit
• 

  WontLeave

  To the one who asked for proof that the organization "has some connection to God and Truth", I'm not going to get into that. Anyone on a forum such as this has already heard all the arguments for and against such things and that would just be an endless quagmire.

  To those who have itemized reasons they believe JWs are not God's people, I can only say this: The Jews orchestrated the death of Jesus and they were his people. JWs haven't topped that, yet. Yes, we can identify Christ's true disciples by their love; that's how we know which JWs we can and can't talk to openly. Besides, where was the love when the Pharisees were stoning Stephen? Where was the love during the Inquisitions? Jesus has never had many followers, but he has a lot of stalkers.

  I've only been presented with two options that are worth any consideration as to how we got here: Evolution and creation. My scientific study of both led me to believe Evolution (not speciation or genetic drift, which some "creationists" deny) is false. So, if God did create everything, what does he want? So I read the most widely-accepted books that have been presented as his. The Qu'ran is an evil book that portrays a puppeteer god who created all intelligent life to burn in Hell for eternity, but hand choosing some to make believe in him and send to Paradise. The Book of Mormon was just a joke on many, many levels.

  The Bible not only rang true, but I noticed that Mormons believe the same thing; Muslims believe the same thing; Jews believe the same thing; whereas Christians are at each other's throats over doctrine. There is so much in-fighting over the Bible by people who claim to represent it, denying crystal-clear Scriptural concepts, that there has to be a sinister force causing confusion - and he wouldn't have to, if the Bible was a lie in the first place. Plus, the ridiculous things the churches say about God torturing people in Hell, God "taking" people in death, God causing everything that happens - including the horrible things, etc. confuse the adherents and alienate the detractors; a deviously effective 2-edged sword. The other religions don't need to be stirred up, because they're not even using the right book (or the whole one).

  I have no intention of going anywhere, although there has been much effort to push me out, from elders, a circuit overseer, and even from the branch. I've just learned to bite my tongue rather than cast my pearls before swine. Even in Jesus' case, they tried to "catch him in his speech." I'm under no illusion I will fare any better. When Jesus realized no good would come of talking to his accusers, "he kept silent and made no reply at all." I've decided to do the same thing. It's like Nazi Germany: Don't give your neighbor any excuse to turn you in to the power structure for "sedition" against the party! There's no point in it, since you can't change things, anyway. If things were righteous and fair, we wouldn't need God's kingdom to rescue us. There is no safe haven in this wicked world, even in his modern "temple".

  Nothing has changed. "Spiritual Paradise", indeed; mostly just a lot of people in the right religion for all the wrong reasons trying to ruin it for everyone else. Their idea that the "great crowd" and "little flock" are 100% JWs would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. And the type of people who seek power are usually the very last ones who should be entrusted with it. Sure, they'll spout the most noble reasons for wanting to "serve", but what they normally want is to compensate for their real life being a disaster. Put a loser with nothing going for him - one willing to swear allegiance to a corporation - in a cheap suit and call him "elder" or put him on a "governing body" and he's still a loser - probably with a chip on his shoulder the size of a national debt.

  As far as the length of my initial post, I felt it all necessary to convey a clear, complete picture. My goal in posting it was to express my empathy for those who may be having some of the same thoughts as I have and to lend what I feel are rational, Scriptural words. People need to know a false dichotomy has been created - the WTBS is purely evil or equal to God - but that not everyone has fallen prey to this divisive tactic. The majority of Witnesses are just like the Jews of Jesus' day: They were more interested in being Jews than being God's people and Witnesses are more interested in being JWs than being Christians. They worship the Society and look to its literature for guidance rather than worship God and look to his word. This isn't the first time dogmatic doctrine has replaced Scripture in God's house, but I believe it will be the last. Just be glad they can't burn our Bibles and torture us, anymore.
• 

  jwfacts

  Welcome.

  I appreciate the thoughts you are having, as I thought down the same line for many years as a JW. However, what you have written is very much what any person of any religion could write. Just replace the word Jehovah's Witness with Christadelphian/SDA/Anglican/Catholic and it still would fit. All have most doctrine strongly supported by the Bible, but a few concepts their followers disagree with. Most are filled with well meaning people. It comes from being involved that your perspective becomes tainted.

  A small group just doesn’t cut it, because any single congregation could be cherry-picked of the best individuals to make a small group of honest-hearted Christians.

  JW's are a small group, irrelevantly small. Half the world (billions of people) have never and never will hear them. Of those that have heard of JW's almost none have the slightest concept of what they teach. You may be staying because it is what you are comfortable with, but if you had been born into or chanced upon one of the 30,000 other christian groups and spent years of indoctrination you would now be equally comfortable with them.

  MDDRISKELL - We know that Jehovhah is using the organization to further the preaching work.

  How do we know that? As mentioned above, the Watchtower preaching work has had an irrelevant affect on the vast majority of people, and I can only attribute it to ego or ignorance to think it has been of any real import in the world. I find it an insult to God to attribute such an ineffective group to having God's guidance regarding preaching.
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  elderelite

  first let me just say... brevity is your friend. however I think this time I got the point that you intend to say, which is what I thought but wasnt sure. You do understand though there is one critical difference between all of these Israel/Watchtower bible and tract society comparisions... the Jews had proof (sort of) that they were his people. The society has nothing. Not one shred of evidence. critical point.
• 

  moshe

  If we fall prey to pride - because we "know better" - and leave God's flock, choose to blindly follow the teachings of men because we are too lazy to learn the truth for ourselves, or completely throw our hands in the air and become an atheist out of frustration, don't expect it to turn out well, because Jesus said "Look! I have forewarned YOU."

  Fact is, the common story here is that people leave the Wacktower everyday, because they find out they do know better than the Goobering Body of old geezers at bethel. It is mentally lazy people who often fall prey to JWs- the ones who failed to heed the warnings of friends and relatives to check out JWs.

  The truth is, that the teachings of men is really all we have to go on- some good and some have been proven to be bad. People don't become atheists out of frustration. It is a process of elimination and finally enlightenment, that leaves a person with no other rational option, but to dump Theism.

  The Bible says that Jesus forewarned us about a lot of bad things and we are still waiting for those generalized bad things to happen so he can come back- now that causes frustration. JWs were gettting so upset over the end of the 1914 generation (and still no Armageddon) that the governing body solved that dilemma for JWs! = they just moved the end of the 1914 generation another 30-40 years into the future. Frustration solved!! JWs can go back to their wasted lives and stop worrying about these niggling little doubts in the back of their head.