Do Some JWs Go to Heaven?

by leavingwt 61 Replies latest jw friends

  • debator
    debator

    Hi Leaving

    Are you saying franz would know personally what it takes to be saved or goto heaven or earth?

    The Bible is clear that we have to follow Jehovah. That even those resurrected from the dead will at the end of 1000 years be tested again.

    Believing whatever you want and still getting saved is not a bible teaching?

    John 17:1-3 NWT

    1 Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you, 2 according as you have given him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole [number] whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life. 3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

    matthew 7:20-23 NWT

    20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].

    21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU ! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

    There is no biblical precedent to assume you can believe/do different messages/teachings/gospels and it is okay.

    Galatians 1:6-9

    6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! Whether you believe witnesses or christendom have the right Gospel, doesn't change the fact that there is only one truth and division of teaching is not meant for us. You cannot blur the Bible to the point where mae Jesus into a salvation amulet and wave him about to save you while ignoring everything else the Bible teaches us to according to Jehovah's will ignoring what Jesus his son actually taught us to do. Jesus himself shows in matthew quoted above that is not an option. What is the point of the bible if we can just believe anything we like and have no responsibility for what we teach and act upon? Hebrews 13:17
    Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

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  • agonus
    agonus

    A salvation amulet... like the non-NT name "Jehovah"?

  • debator
    debator

    Hi agonas

    Yes we recognise Jehovah as our father and God and declare ourselves his people but we still render our worship of him with action not just empty words.

    Zechariah 13:9
    This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'Jehovah is our God.' "

    That is not using him as a talisman but the first step in becoming his people.

  • agonus
    agonus

    My point is Debator, even those of us who are most cynical and resentful of the Watchtower organization as a religion acknowledge that there are indeed many Witnesses who are true Brothers of Christ partly due to their love and sincerity (but mostly because of his love), yet some (perhaps most) would never acknowledge the truth in this sentiment regarding anyone outside The Organization. It's something that transcends legalistic belief systems, which are just as much "talismans" as a Hail Mary. The greatest theologians in the world can debate Scripture until the cows come home but I don't think a single one would disagree that, when you get down to brass tacks, yes, it really IS all about Christ and the love he showed, and not which of us has the "proper understanding" of everything he and, to a lesser degree, the apostles, said. The love is shown in his words, yet the love transcends his words.

  • agonus
    agonus

    When I say I believe that there are JWs who are indeed true Brothers in Christ, do you consider those "empty words"?

  • agonus
    agonus

    Maybe Franz DID personally know. Who are we to say otherwise?

  • debator
    debator

    Hi Agonas

    Are you confering some kind of possible divine knowledge on franz? to know who is written in the book of life? who who will be placed in heaven next to Jesus?

    Matthew 20:23
    Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father."

    Can I clarify? are you saying what we believe specifically as regards to which God we serve is unimportant next how much we love etc?

    1 Corinthians 8:6
    yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    Jesus testifies himself showing what we believe is important especially with regards to doing the "will of his father". Or why do we need to have 4 gospels not just marking him as Jehovah's son but the preaching work he did without let up since his baptism until his death for us. What we teach has to be in the bible that is where we are accountable.

    1 Corinthians 15:2
    By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

  • designs
    designs

    Things started off so simple when our greatgrandparents stepped off the Ark- follow the Noachide Laws and enter Gan Eden, pretty natural for the Haside' Ummot Ha-Olam ( Us).

    If you want to complicate it go knock your socks off

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    leavingwt

    I believe God gives saving faith to whoever he chooses.

    Romans 9:16

    So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

  • debator
    debator

    Hi deputy Dog

    Romans 9:16 is part of Paul's inspired words concerning the inclusion of the gentiles as God's people to partake of his mercy/undedeserved kindness by faith in the one true God Jehovah. It not advocating spining off into all different divisive directions of belief to different Gods and somehow still being acceptable.

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