HELP REQUEST - Judicial Committee Hearing tonight!

by SweetBabyCheezits 102 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  besty

  Time over again.....

  We were given 3 optional dates to attend a JC comprised of 4 elders - they were having the meetings whether we attended or not. We would have been DF'd in absentia if we hadn't shown up.

  I did show up for the last of the 3 dates. My wife, Sam, didn't attend any of them. The JC was an argument from start to finish and I stood up and walked out after about an hour. (One of the elders who had been on a visibly short fuse all the way through told me to sit down as they hadn't finished - I told him he obviously wasn't very good at listening - "I'm leaving")

  Anyways I regret the way I handled that. I'm half thinking of writing to them to apologize, but also to thank them for DF'ing us. With the benefit of three years hindsight it has clearly been the best thing to ever happen to us. We are happy, contented and have met some great ex-JW friends and never-JW friends alike. We are not under mind-control and are free to think for ourselves. We are truly and sincerely grateful to the elders and everyone else that made sure we got DF'd.

  So time over again....

  I would accept the invite to the JC. Before they opened in prayer I would take control and ask to read a scripture. If they made a big fuss about saying the prayer, I would concede that. I would then read:

  Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God. 1 Cor 4:5 - NASV

  "Now then gentlemen, if you feel that you have been given exemption from this scripture by the organisation you work for, then I'm sure you will do what you have been told to do. Thank you for listening. Goodbye."

  And I would be out of there.

  So-called "Judicial Committees" are un-scriptural in many ways. They are held in secret, the congregation are not allowed to make a personal informed decision as to whether one of their brothers (or sisters) should be shunned, or not. And of course, as per the scripture above, the authority to judge is not given to them.

  The JC only has the authority over you that you give it. If you have been asked to attend a Judicial Committee, think about telling them - politely - where to go.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Inkie is right in the first paragraph, but the second one? Occasionally, JC's let parents or caregivers sit in when dealing with a delicate situation, perhaps the JW-elder son or son-in-law of an old person might be allowed in. Otherwise, it's just another part of "their show."

  If you don't admit any guilt whatsoever, they have to produce evidence. Don't let them say, "Your mother told us..." Make them produce your mother. If they have two witnesses to any charge (even if it's to two separate instances of that charge) then you are fried. Taking the hardcore stand that you are innocent and won't help hang yourself guarantees a DF. It only works if they don't have two witnesses and there is no confession.

  If their witness were your mother, would you still insist that what she said was not true?
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  OTWO: This is not your show to run. They will refuse to let them testify.

  Not my show, no, but I was told I could have my own witnesses. Granted, when I specified who and why, they acted like it wouldn't be necessary. But they didn't refuse to let them enter the hall. I suspect, though, that they won't WANT them involved.

  Either way, I'm asking the guys to show up. If the elders somehow skirt around my use of witness testimony, then at least my witnesses were on location and aware that their testimony was rejected before being given. I think that could have an even greater affect on them, which is the whole point of my cooperation with this circus anyway.
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  sir82: Nor will you be allowed to take notes.

  Aside from that thought, your comments make sense. But there's nothing in the elder's handbook that states notes are not allowed and I also specifically asked if I could. They said yes.

  I wouldn't be surprised if laptops are off limits but I'm looking for either a personal experience stating such OR I'd like to hear from an elder who has current notes in his manual specifying laptops are not allowed. It's not that I don't appreciate your reply, Sir82, but if you're adamant (yet wrong) about taking notes, I have to wonder if you have your facts straight on the laptop as well. No offense, I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row.

  A judicial committee is very much a "strutting macho display" for typical elders - it's a chance to demonstrate their control and power. If you are less than than sniveling, groveling, and compliant, they will go rough on you.

  While I disagree with the action being taken and the WTBTS judicial system in general, I have a hard time believing hasty generalizations of any type. I know two of the elders in this case pretty well and this isn't something they're enjoying. Their perception is skewed and they believe they're right, I'm wrong, and God wants them to punish me and protect the congregation. I disagree, obviously, but I realize that is their motivation. Plus, my issue isn't with individuals at my old hall but with the Society itself.

  Having said all that, I may feel totally different tomorrow.
• 

  donuthole

  @Cheezit

  If you are being accused of apostasy the elders will probably want to know above everything else, if you believe in the Faithful & Discreet Slave is the channel that Jehovah God is using and the Society is Jehovah's Organization. If you are not able to affirm that fundamental belief then you will most likely be disfellowshipped for apostasy. It is pretty cut and dry. Really any accusation or evidence or witnesses that you or they may have means is secondary. If you deny the FDS then they will view that as a confession of apostasy and won't bother with any other evidence or witnesses.

  Unless you want to use the occasion as a final opportunity to speak your beliefs before being disfellowshipped it will do no good to try to reason with them. You stand less chance as a bapstist preacher reasoning with a JW at the door.

  So the question is how much do you value the truth and are you willing to lie to remain in the organization.

  @Inkie

  During my JC I asked three times who my accusers were and they failed to present them. The third time I was asked to leave the room and they would discuss if they bring forth my accusers, when I returned to the room I was summarily disfellowshipped.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Your witnesses are going to wait outside of the star chamber room and would only be allowed to confirm or refute an accusation. If Brother Bobby was present when you allegedly said something to Sister Sue, then Brother Bobby would come in and answer questions when they have already heard from Sister Sue, then Brother Bobby would go back to the hallway. If they are character witnesses or there to refute something they never bring up, then they will remain in the hallway.

  They proceed before the JC as if you have rights. They try to be decent people and inform you that such witnesses "wouldn't be necessary" to save them and you some trouble, but they won't outright say that they won't call on them. FACTS ARE FACTS THOUGH. They won't call on them unless it serves some purpose as I explained above.
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  Hang on, folks! Please, for clarification, I fully expect to be disfellowshipped in this. Again my goal isn't to get out of a DF verdict but for my old friends to be aware - as personally as possible - of what's going on. If that means they sit in their car outside the hall and I have to walk out and tell them they aren't allowed, so be it. That makes a tad more impression than if they didn't have to drive into the parking lot, IMO.

  The other part of my goal is to have as accurate record of the meeting as possible and possibly sneak in a point or two regarding inconsistency that led to my lack of faith in the FDS.

  OTWO, I will probably carry the laptop and leave it outside if forced to do so. But I agree about the note-taking. I'll write furiously, regardless of what they say. We can be there all night.

  Besty, those are great ideas. After reading them I recall seeing a thread about your meeting before. Thanks for the input.
• 

  Lozhasleft

  My experience of my Judicial made a mockery of everything I'd believed in the Org for years and years. Yes I too am thankful now because I have built a whole new life - but still the damage they did to me /our family /my sense of self and confidence was blown apart...brace yourself SBC it wont be nice at all....on the plus side we'll all be here to help if you need us...

  Loz x
• 

  brotherdan

  Cheeze - RECORD IT! That's the best and most useful thing you can do. I think this would be the most useful reason for going to a JC. You can help others to see what to expect and how the elders work. Many JWs really don't know what goes on in JC's. PLEASE RECORD IT! It'll probably be helpful for your own sanity too. They'll get you all worked up and if you ever start doubting things, re-listen to the JC and you'll remember what they did to you.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I am pretty sure there is no directive to prohibit laptops, but I am pretty sure they will view them as recording devices. If you really want to record every last thing, the best thing to do would be to run to a spy store and get hooked up. Even though that's clearly against the rules and what you want is not, it is about the only way to record the words said. Just don't mention to your friends how you managed to type out every word said when you type this out later.

  I still say I would insist on writing everything and slowing the procedure.

  On Donuthole's comment- YES, if you don't admit that you believe in the organization and submit to the FDS, they won't need any more rope to hang you, nor any witnesses. If you won't lie (and I don't automatically recommend lying), then all you can do is say, "I am not here to supply you answers to questions. I am here to see your evidence on charges." That might shake them up enough to proceed after you refuse to answer basic belief questions. The downside of that is that you will never be able to state your beliefs, but I would go that route.