Mother In-Law expressed DOUBTS ABOUT THE BORG!!!

by brotherdan 11 Replies latest jw friends

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  brotherdan

  On Saturday I was watching TV and my mother-in law was hanging out at the house and asked me if I'd come in the office and talk to her for a second. I thought, "Great...she's heard that I don't believe in the WT anymore..." So I went back and asked her what was up. She said, "I'm having a tough time and really doubting things in the organization." I couldn't believe my ears!

  So I started very subtley and told her about Stephen Hassans book about mind control. I told her that what she is experiencing is cognitive dissonance, and that just showed that she was really starting to think and be able to analyze things objectively. I told her that there are specific things that you can look for in any organization (religious or otherwise) to see if they are a mind control or destructive organization. One was double speak.

  I began telling her about the Malawi situation and contrasting that with the Cartilla situation in Mexico. And then....

  My wife stormed into the room!!! She had been listening at the door! She started yelling at me that I was horrible for attacking her mom at this tough time (her mom is df'd but "coming back"). Her mom was nice and said that she brought up the conversation and we were just discussing facts and not being critical. But my wife had been listening at the door too long.

  I went to the meeting yesterday...and her mom was there with a VERY studied Watchtower. I was so sad...

  Another interesting thing about the meeting yesterday was during the opening prayer. The brother said, "We thank you Jehovah for your wonderful Watchtower that you've given us." Hmmm...and it's fallible and uninspired...but it comes from Jehovah? What?!?!? I was sick to my stomach.
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  nelly136

  She had been listening at the door! She started yelling at me that I was horrible for attacking her mom at this tough time (her mom is df'd but "coming back"). Her mom was nice and said that she brought up the conversation and we were just discussing facts and not being critical. But my wife had been listening at the door too long.

  thats a little disturbing.

  is there anything about cult members spying on other members in the steven hassan book you can photocopy and give to your mil?
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  mamalove

  That is pretty interesting. I bet your MIL felt guilty because of your wife's response. That is too bad. She obviously wants to feel secure in her beliefs. I am curious if your wife is such a die hard, and I mean that with all due respect, as I realize you love her very much and this is an issue more than likely----why was your DF'd MIL at your house? That is a big no-no to be associating with the likes of her status to the JW's.

  Did you get to finish your conversation? Did that upset you that your wife was listening at the door?
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  brotherdan

  No, I never got to finish the conversation. I was only able to spend about 10 mins with her!

  My wife picks and chooses what she wants to follow and what not to follow. I've been able to convince her how unchristian df'ing is. She finally has agreed. Her 2 other sisters (1 is at bethel) refuse to talk to their mother. But my wife thinks that df'ing does more harm than good. But yet...she thinks it's a good thing that her mom is df'd. So go figure...

  I wasn't so much upset that she was listening at the door as I was frustrated that I didn't get to get very far with her mom. As far as I can see her mom sees the bad things about the org, but is hung up on the whole "They are the only ones preaching" deal. I did get to beg her to read Ray Franz's book before my wife came in. I was telling her that it was not an angry spitefull expose', but an introspective analysis about why he was able to justify his actions for so long, and what led to him not being able to look the other way anymore.

  So who knows... I'm just REALLY bummed that I didn't get to really talk a whole lot with her. My wife is going to be very suspicious now...
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  SweetBabyCheezits

  BD, just wondering if there's any chance you could get your wife (or MIL) to put herself in a less-biased position by reading accounts of exmormons (exmormon.org). That is one thing that helped mine since she refused to look at exJW testimony. But it took a great deal of reasoning (read:arguments) before she really allowed herself to even visit an exMormon site.

  I personally don't believe in the Bible as the inspired, inerrant book of God but find it self-defeating to say as much when arguing with devout JWs. Seems that the JW mind shuts tighter when the bible is discredited.

  That said, the "we're the only ones preaching" point is tough for me to debate from the bible because as far as I can see, JWs are the only group that take Matt 24:14 so literally and poking the public eye with it.

  To make things more difficult, very few JWs seem to understand the concept of self-fulfilling prophecy to make the connection. (Actually, "self-fulfilling" may not be accurate... Thomas Theorem maybe? I'm not sure. Maybe I don't understand the concept either.)

  So when debating this topic, I'm usually only left with a couple of points if I'm 'reasoning on the scriptures'. Unfortunately, both points rely on the other person's ability to accept that the WTBTS just has another perspective. And we all know that for a person who holds the presupposition that the WT is god's spokesman, such arguments are weak.

  1. Modern day self-fulfillment of prophecy proves nothing. And Col 1:23 (where Paul said that the good news HAD been preached in all the earth) could be accepted as fulfillment of Matt. 24:14, lending credence to preterist views that such prophecies were fulfilled by (and upon) the destruction of Jerusalem by Gallus around 70CE. Another perspective/interpretation that doesn't prove anything.
  2. For JWs, the "preaching of the good news" is their most prized unique mark (since they discredit Mormons), IMO. I reason that for the Amish, they, too, have a unique identifier: "being no part of the world". They take that passage literally as much as JWs take global D2D preaching literally. Then it's simply a matter of viewpoint. The JWs' silver bullet is as subjective the next religion's.

  I'm always looking for new perspectives. Were you able to get in words in with your MIL on the preaching point?
• 

  PSacramento

  I feel for your MIL, I can sense the sorrow and lonliness that she feels and that is why she is going back.

  Breaks my heart.
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  flipper

  BROTHERDAN- That is EXCELLENT you got to drop a few little tidbits to your mother in law. It's obvious she is starting to think with her authentic, real non-cult mind- however I think she is in FEAR of your wife and her other daughters and what they think !

  So my advice is this : I agree with SWEETBABYCHEEZITS , get some information about OTHER cults Mormons, for instance and share experiences of how other religions control their members. Draw her out in conversation to find out WHAT her doubts are- and go from there, carefully showing respect to her but just supplying factual information she could look up on the internet herself. Go easy, take it slow . But to have a peaceful environment - I would definitely go have a secret cup of coffee with you mother in law somewhere that your wife WILL NOT find you !

  This is not being dishonest, it's not being unfair to your wife. SHE was being unfair and rude to you and your mother in law by acting like a brat breaking up your conversation. But remember, your wife is mostly TOTALLY mind controlled- apparently your mother in law is NOT and is thinking with an open mind. Strike while her mind is open and the iron is hot ! If you love your mother in law- help her see the real light- carefully ! Good luck
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  One of the new ragazines (public edition) has a farticle on "do not be deceived". She should study/compare/contrast that with the quotes in the "study edition" Watchtower about GB practically being the voice of God and shouldn't be questioned/doubted. The Treasoning book, last heading (I think) under False Prophets says that Jehovah's Witnesses don't claim to be prophets, yet the GB expects the R&F to treat them like prophets.
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  undercover

  Be careful how much you try to share with a "doubter" at first.

  I think new ex-JWs are like new JWs. So eager to show everyone what they've learned that they end up irritating the bejesus out of people.

  Most people don't give a rat's ass about JWs so it's hard to share what we've experienced with a never-been-a-JW. And then, when we come across someone who admits a few doubts, we pounce too hard and scare em right back to "mother".

  Congrats on giving the MIL some info, but don't be disappointed when she shows signs of going back at times. Escaping is not an overnight exercise. It takes time....sometimes 3 steps forward and 2 back...but at least it's one step further than before.

  And, let's face it... some people are never going to get over the fear of what the "real" world holds for them. They may harbor doubts or disbelief even, but they're afraid to pull the curtain back to see the man behind it.
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  OUTLAW

  Your wife is willing to verbaly beat the shit out of anyone..

  Who does`nt agree with the WBT$..

  She has no loyalty to anyone but the WBT$..

  Borg`s Witness`s..

  Watchtower Borg and Tract $ ociety..

  ........................... ...OUTLAW