Then I stalked out to my car and spent the next hour fruitlessly trying to figure out why the $@@%$#% thing wouldn't start.
The moral of this story is - get a decent car!
Gentle JESUS, meek and mild . . .
by nicolaou 34 Replies latest watchtower bible
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THE GLADIATOR
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journey-on
When something Jesus was supposed to have said seems confusing or contradictory, the best thing to do is re-read it in its entire context. Who was he speaking to? Who was surrounding him when he uttered those particular words? What was he really saying and on which level? Remember, there were teachings for the masses, and then there were those deeper teachings for those in his inner circle of chosen disciples.
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snowbird
Journey-On!!!
Spot-on.
Syl
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PSacramento
Remember, there were teachings for the masses, and then there were those deeper teachings for those in his inner circle of chosen disciples.
This can give the impression of 2 messages and that was not the case, Jesus did expand on many things to his "inner circle" and even in the inner circle there were those that saw things others didn't - case in point Peter, John and James and the Transfiguration.
This was not Jesus being misleading but knowing those that can handle more than others, those that were more open than others and those that jesus knew would need more than others.
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ProdigalSon
If there were separate teachings for the masses, with the large crowds and ruckus and all, then they completely escaped the notice of every secular historian of the time, most notably Josephus. Here was a guy who wrote tomes about insignificant nobodies, but the man who walked on water, fed 5,000 with two loaves, raised the dead, gave eyesight to the blind, caused an earthquake when he died that was so violent that dead people came out of their tombs, rented the Temple curtain in two, and caused nightfall in the middle of the afternoon....not a word. Oh, except for a one-paragraph blatant forgery.
On the other hand, SOMETHING went on during this time that caused Christianity to spread like wildfire, even though it was basically a carbon copy of Mithraism, the dominant religion at the time. Or perhaps that's what the Romans did to the story afterward, adding in all the Mithraic content. That would explain why the Christian churches are built on Mithraic temple ruins.
According to the Gnostic Gospels, Jesus was conducting a private school for 72 disciples. It is suspected by some, including myself, that he was an Essene. Perhaps there were many Jesuses springing up, like a rising consciousness. Whatever the case, there is NO historical evidence for the wildly famous escapades of Jesus of Nazareth, a town which didn't even exist at the time, outside of the Nicea Bible.
Not all is lost though. The historical figure is not what matters, it's his message that counts.
"Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe." -John 20:29
~PS
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Meeting Junkie No More
Prodigal Son - I love your posts!
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nicolaou
Not all is lost though. The historical figure is not what matters, it's his message that counts.
That's what I'm driving at, just what was Jesus message?
Mark 8:34-38 - Then he called his disciples and the people around him, and said to them, "If anyone wants to follow in my footsteps, he must give up all right to himself, take up his cross and follow me. The man who tries to save his life will lose it; it is the man who loses his life for my sake and the Gospel's who will save it."
It's passages like this one I'm interested in. Is Jesus actually saying that anyone who does not follow him will lose his life? Is that a teaching at the heart of Christianity? Jesus is said to separate the sheep from the goats - can you be a Christian without accepting that Jesus will kill all the goats?
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ProdigalSon
The idea that unbelievers were condemned is just what Jesus would repeatedly blast the Pharisees for. It's important to keep in mind that the Roman Empire needed to make Jesus THE MAN-GOD, the ONLY way, and that's exactly what they did. They put many of those words in his mouth. Which ones, we don't know for sure, but the truth rings loud and clear, and so do lies. It only takes a word change here or there to completely alter the meaning of a statement.
When Jesus said we could not love our lives, that we needed to pick up the cross and deny ourselves, he was teaching about death of the ego. That is the group (legion) of competing voices within the mind that are always begging for attention. ME this, ME that. When we die to ourselves, we become genuinely interested in the welfare of others, while we still love OURSELVES. How is that? BEcause the TRUE self is not your name, status, and Social Security number. It is an eternally existing "I AM" piece of God!
Namaste,
Jimmy C.
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SweetBabyCheezits
PS: They put many of those words in his mouth. Which ones, we don't know for sure, but the truth rings loud and clear, and so do lies. It only takes a word change here or there to completely alter the meaning of a statement.
How is a Joe Schmoe like me supposed to put faith in any part of the NT (and therefore JC) if this is the case?
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ablebodiedman
(Matthew 10:34-37) . . . Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man's enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me.
You need to see the context.
What would cause the division:
Luke 12
49 “I came to start a fire on the earth, and what more is there for me to wish if it has already been lighted? 50 Indeed, I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am being distressed until it is finished! 51 Do YOU imagine I came to give peace on the earth? No, indeed, I tell YOU , but rather division. 52 For from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against [her] mother, mother-in-law against [her] daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against [her] mother-in-law.”
His Baptism is what causes the division.
There are Jehovah's Witnesses who realize they have been baptized in the name of God's Spirit Directed Organization.
Once deceived they ask to be baptized according to the way Jesus Christ commanded instead.
That is how I was eventually disfellowshipped. --- Shunned by friends and family - Division in the household.
The judicial committe hearing was easy.
I could answer every single question with; "I want to obey Jesus Christ".
They still disfellowshipped me.
I caused them distress as well.
I was more worried about it causing Jesus Christ distress!
Indeed, I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am being distressed until it is finished!
There are also now thousands and thousands of Jehovah's Witness young people who refuse to be baptised in the Name of "God's Spirit Directed Organization".
They would rather their family divide than cause distress to Jesus Christ.
In Christ
abe