When will the crashing and burning of this organization begin? (page 5)

OnTheWayOut

WTS seems to be avoiding the "crash and burn" exit from the world scene. But it gets deeper and deeper in the hole they created and will hopefully not be able to recover at some point.

1. Youth retention. They tried demonizing college and the internet and things young people enjoy. Parents generally cooperated, but the college thing might have been too much. Parents want the best for their kids and might not help, but might not hinder their kids going on to education and out of the WTS.

I see the latest "generation overlap" as 1975 all over again. They had excellent member retention including young ones prior to 1975. Even though their end-date expired, after 1975 they seemed to retain more new members than they would have gotten if they never had the doomsday event. I could imagine their next end-date would be 2034 (120 years from 1914 similar to the 120 years God gave man in Noah's day). They would avoid putting the date directly in print, just indicating a parallel to the days of Noah in the WT study articles and hyping the members at conventions.

I doubt that any effort to retain youths would work. They use the internet and learn about WTS. If they fell for the end date, they would leave in huge droves when the date came and went.

2. Fewer males able to teach. I see them constantly combining congregations. Along with "fewer males" they have "fewer people." They have made it easier and easier on the elders to run things- shortening or eliminating meetings, providing enough information that they don't have several hours of preparation time for meeting parts. I doubt they are ready to let women step up, but they might expand some women's part in the mid-week meeting or allow pre-recorded audio (or even audio with video) for several meeting parts to come from WTS.

3. Science. Not much they can do. I see them ignoring the creation accounts of the Bible and not arguing with Science more and more. But they do have to clash with facts to present their version of the truth.

sir82

Here's the critical point: the organization is based on a business model that doesn't work anymore.

Exactly so.

Now add to that, a "board of directors" (the GB) who, to a man, are incapable of, or unwilling to, admit to that, because they are so utterly enamored of the idea that they and they alone are the sole custodians of "Kingdom interests" (and the adulation of millions that goes along with that), not to mention their millionaire lifestyle*.

And add to that a handful of remaining loyal Bethel higher-ups who may see the problem, but can't or won't say anything for fear of upsetting these "brothers of Christ" and losing their only hope of security as old age approaches.

So what do you get? Stagnation. Desperate control measures. Weekly reminders, in song and study, of "how wonderful it is to obey".

And much hand-wringing over how "the brothers aren't following direction!" and "we're losing the kids" and "we're running out of money".

* Granted, no individual personally has millions - but the billions of dollars the Society controls are at the disposal of these guys - any use of it that doesn't raise too many eyebrows (Branch dedication in Tahiti? I'd better go check it out, and while I'm there, spend a week or 2 giving "upbuilding talks!) is perfectly fine.

LV101

OnTheWayOut, Sir 82, Metatron --- great INFO. Wish this topic would go on forever and ever. Hopefully, each day will bring forth more horror stories for the evil empire. I can't read about their demise enough.

NV1

St George of England

Also, the WTS has backed away from some of its embarrassing positions--particularly that the "creative days" were 7000 years each. Today, you can be a JW and believe in the "big bang" and that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago (which wasn't the case when I was growing up as a JW). I don't see the WTS taking this much further, though.

OMG made the point above and also Oracle said the same. I mistakenly believed this to be the case until fairly recently. Can either of you show where that has been put in print?

The WTS still believes the creative days to be 7000 years long. They believe the earth was created millions of years before the first creative day which explains decay of radioactive elements etc. An elder in my congregation wrote to Brooklyn on this point and I published part of their reply on a thread some time ago.

As regards membership, that could fall below 1 million and they would simply write it off as "the love of the greater number cooling off". When they are finally ensconced in their new cult HQ at Warwick, autonomous and self sufficient with the farms near by, a world wide supply of KH's and Assembly Halls to sell off and provide funding, the core leaders will be living in luxury for the next century and beyond.

Any thoughts of the WTS completely disappearing is just wishful thinking in my opinion.

George

Farkel

:They have already made great strides in this area over the recent years by abandoning certain teachings and policies like;

:1) each creative day is 7,000 years long

They haven't actually abandoned that teaching. They just don't mention it anymore, and instead says "thousands and thousands of years". That of course, could mean two thousand years or two thousand thousand years.

The standard WT rule about their teachings is: "if it hasn't been repudiated in print, it is still Doctrine(tm)."

Farkel

:I would love to see the IRS rip them a new one with their 'volunteer' no FICA tax, no Medicare tax, ect ect ect....

They get around that one by forcing Bethel workers to take a "vow of poverty." It's fascinating to watch the Watchtower slowly become more and more like the Catholic Church! As James Penton pointed out in "Apocalypse Delayed", they already have almost exactly the same hierarchical system as the RCC.

Farkel

undercover

The WTS still believes the creative days to be 7000 years long.

I had the unfortunate privilege of attending a JW funeral recently and the elder giving the eulugy propaganda speech plainly stated that while the planet itself may be millions of years old, Jehovah God embarked on a 42,000 year creation process that culminated with the creation of man a little over 6,000 years ago. Pretty much word for word how he put it. (Why that particular bit of JW doctrine was needed in a funeral talk is curious...). And this wasn no slouch elder. This guy used to be a substitute CO, may still be for all I know. He's a company man fer shur...

They believe the earth was created millions of years before the first creative day which explains decay of radioactive elements etc. An elder in my congregation wrote to Brooklyn on this point and I published part of their reply on a thread some time ago.

Too bad that this newer creation belief is in direct conflict with the Bible... See Exodus 20:11 and Exodus 31:17

For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day. That is why Jehovah blessed the sabbath day and proceeded to make it sacred.

...because in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and proceeded to refresh himself.