Interesting Watchtower quote on Jeremiah 29:10 - Seventy years FOR Babylon.

by nicolaou 15 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  ablebodiedman

  nicolaou,

  It is worse than that.

  The 70 weeks prophecy end with the termination of sin and to bring in righteousness to time indefinite.

  Daniel 9

  24 “There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite.

  Jesus Christ himself told us when that would happen:

  Matthew 13

  The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him that has ears listen.

  The Watchtower are still waiting for the conclusion of the system of things.

  The Watchtower Society also imply that Daniels people are Jews.

  24 “There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city

  Yet the 70 week prophecy itself mentions the Messiah!

  In other words Daniels people are Christians and the holy city is Christianity, not Jews!

  There are also many arguments about when the word went forth to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple and start the 70 weeks.

  So when did the word go forth?

  Acts 15

  14 Sym´e·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, 16 ‘After these things I shall return and rebuild the booth of David that is fallen down; and I shall rebuild its ruins and erect it again, 17 in order that those who remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things,

  The Watchtower Society is completely out to lunch!

  In Christ

  abe
• 

  Doug Mason

  The Danish NWT of the text is available at:

  http://www.jwstudies.com/Jer_29-10_Danish_1993_NWT.pdf

  The Swedish NWT of the text is available at:

  http://www.jwstudies.com/Jer_29-10_Swedish_2003_NWT.pdf

  Doug
• 

  Doug Mason

  abe,

  When "the 70 week prophecy itself mentions the Messiah", it is not speaking of the NT's Jesus Christ.

  A "messiah" was any person anointed with oil or grease either as a (military) king or as the High Priest. Hence the Babylonian exiles considered Cyrus to be a Messiah. Hence the Jews at the time of Jesus expected that the Messiah would inspire and lead a military uprising that would remove the Roman yoke.

  The "70 Weeks" has been subjected to repeated reinterpretations from the time it was first written. At the time of the NT it was still seen as eschatological. Hence the gospel writers, who had just witnessed the destruction of Jerusalem at the hands of the Romans, applied the predition to that event. No NT writer applies the "70 Weeks" to Jesus Christ.

  Centuries later, the Christians changed their position and they started to apply the "70 weeks" historically, with most - but not all - relating it to the ministry of Jesus Christ.

  Thus your idea that the "70 weeks" should be understood eschatologically is in line with the style of understanding at the time that the NT was being written. But by the time that the NT Canon was set in the 4th century, the understanding had gone through a great change and was interpreted by most as historical. Of course, as I said, not all those historical interpreters referred the "70 Weeks" to the timing of Jesus Christ's ministry.

  Doug
• 

  Joey Jo-Jo

  TheMadJW wrote :Jo-jo, mankind and men are synonyms. Get a life.

  Indeed but not "lowliest one of mankind" , don't you know your JW theology? this refers to Jesus (not).

  e.g - strongest one of mankind, fattest one of mankind, richest one of mankind, they are all singular.

  Take out the "one" and it becomes plural

  New American Standard Bible (©1995)
  "This sentence is by the decree of the angelic watchers And the decision is a command of the holy ones, In order that the living may know That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind, And bestows it on whom He wishes And sets over it the lowliest of men."

  King James Bible
  This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

  American King James Version
  This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever he will, and sets up over it the basest of men.

  American Standard Version
  The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones; to the intent that the living may know that the Most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the lowest of men.

  Douay-Rheims Bible
  This is the decree by the sentence of the watchers, and the word And demand of the holy ones; till the living know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men; and he will give it to whomsoever it shall please him, and he will appoint the basest man over it.

  Darby Bible Translation
  This sentence is by the decree of the watchers, and the decision by the word of the holy ones: that the living may know that the Most High ruleth over the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

  English Revised Version
  The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the Most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the lowest of men.

  Webster's Bible Translation
  This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

  World English Bible
  The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones; to the intent that the living may know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever he will, and sets up over it the lowest of men.

  Young's Literal Translation
  by the decree of the sifters is the sentence, and by the saying of the holy ones the requirement, to the intent that the living may know that the Most High is ruler in the kingdom of men, and to whom He willeth He giveth it, and the lowest of men He doth raise up over it.
• 

  nicolaou

  This is why I normally stay away from debates on scripture, they are ultimately futile. Jeremiah 29:10 is a good example of how a single word translated one way or the other can make the world of difference to different sets of believers. That one word difference could actually cost you your family! Drink that thought in for a while . . . . . .

  Best not to believe.
• 

  Joey Jo-Jo

  Not really, i think that debates are important, and this word was not translated but added, look up the original hebrew its not there.