holy spirit and miracles

by inbetween 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  inbetween

  A thought, that came during last weeks WT study:

  JW believe, that any miraculous gift of the HS is gone in our time, since we have the complete, Gods word.

  On the other hand, they claim , HS serves them as teacher and remembrancer !

  But is this not also a miracle ?

  Or can you in any scientific way explain, how HS works ?

  if not, its a miracle. So if JW claim, they have HS, they believe in the HS working miracles even today...

  Most JW dont see this, a sister even commented, that this action of HS as remembrancer is not a miracle...
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  Chalam

  Those with a cessationist view largely hang there view on verse 10 being the completed biblical canon.

  1 Corinthians 13 (New International Version)

  1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

  4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

  8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

  13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

  However, the WT claim that tongues have ceased but prophecy has not (verse 8)!

  Indeed, according to their view their prophecies should be perfect now as verse 9-10 states!!

  Verse 12 states that they should know fully but clearly we are still at the state Paul describes as knowing in part.

  The gifts are still fully operational and every Christian who has received the baptism in the Spirit Acts 1:5 should operate in one or more of them 1 Corinthians 12 , 1 Corinthians 14

  Who's face will we see "face to face"?

  Revelation 22:3-4 (New International Version)

  3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.

  Clearly, we have not reached Rev 22 yet and the WT claim is yet more falsehood.

  Here's an outline for continuationism. If you want to see the gifts at work then get to your local church of Spirit filled believers Ephesians 5:18

  1 Corinthians 14:22 (New International Version)

  22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  designs

  Do you mean more of your doctored Marjoesque videos, you really are living in the land of the delusional.

  Fundamentalists Regular Pioneers on steriods..............
• 

  Chalam

  John 9:28 (New International Version)

  28 Then they hurled insults at him and said, "You are this fellow's disciple! We are disciples of Moses!

  John 15:20 (New International Version)

  20 Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

  1 Peter 2:23 (New International Version)

  23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly.

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  designs

  Just the facts Stephen, something you obviously have difficulty navigating much like we did as Witnesses. I've been to your type of churches, I've seen the fraud first hand.

  I always do personal investigation before I posit a position.
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  arimatthewdavies

  i am j.w. baptised yes they teach the gifts of the spirit are dead, and so are miracles.. i say thats a mile high stinking pack of wolf poo! just like some one said if those gifts are dead their claim to be receiving special direction makeing them the f.d.s. WOULD HAVE TO BE A LIE. i am a liveing proof that the holy spirit still does miracles today for it was he that healed me from drug addiction!
  and freed me from the fear and control of that organization that swears up and down you are an apostate if you dont beleive that the w.b.t.s and its governing body is the f.d.s. they will disfellowship you right quick if you say they are not! but when i was a child they fooled me into missing jehovah gods grestest gift a relationship of love from jesus and the holy spirit.
  while their is not a lot of people jumping out of wheel chairs and testifying how jesus healed them..hear this! jesus christ through the holy spirit healed me from 20 years of drug adiction in a miraculous way, jehovahs wittnesses neither healed me or showed me the way. but they did tell me how sinfull i was and make me feel like poop! i am a baptised j.w i testify that the holy spirit is alive and well he does still do miricles.
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  Chalam

  Amen!

  Mark 16:17-18 (New International Version)

  17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

  John 14:12 (New International Version)

  12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

  Blessings,

  Stephen
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  PSacramento

  The HS is alive and well and working as it always has since the accension of Jesus.

  It fills us full of Jesus' love and strenghten us for what is to come and what is here already.
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  designs

  Spoken like a bunch of Protestants. The assumption that the Bat Kol can go into Exile......

  Mystical notions and assumptions cross all religious and ethnic boundries.
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  tec

  I would much rather have the Holy Spirit upon me, and any gifts that come with, than the Bible. People can and have messed with the Bible. They can't mess with the Spirit. I see no way that the written word could possibly be a replacement for the Spirit. But rather a guide that could direct us to Christ and so, the Spirit.

  Tammy