by brotherdan 26 Replies latest watchtower bible
brotherdan
It sounds like you need a bit more bible knowledge.
Maybe.
As I said earlier, "That's not to say God doesn't rejoice with us over things."
I'm still waiting for a verse that says "specifically" that we can make God's heart rejoice.
I've got to run. Ill be back in a couple of hours.
I don't know if I can give a more clear scripture than the one I gave you in Proverbs.
But the Bible is full of examples of how we can affect God. Much of this is done through prayer. We can do things that cause God to respond. Jesus said in John 14:13 "Whatever you ask in my name, I will do."
Paul gave this advice in Phillipians 4:6,7 - "Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." We ask, he responds.
But isn't God unchangeable? Of course. But he can still be affected by us. Look at Jonah 3:10 - "When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, He had compassion and did not bring the destruction He had threatened." Genesis 6:6,7 it says, "The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth - men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air - for I am grieved that I have made them." Did God do this? No, He changed His mind and saved Noah, his family, and the animals.
But where does it say that a MANS PRAYER can change Gods mind? Look at Exodus 32:10 - "Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make YOU (Moses) into a great nation." But Moses pleaded for the people and finally God said in vs 14: "Then the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened. "
My point in all of this is that WE CAN AFFECT GOD! He is not a distant entity that couldn't care less about us. We can cause him to feel pain and sadness and to grieve in his heart. Conversely we can make him rejoice in us and make his heart happy.
Jesus himself said that the Angels even rejoice when we are saved at Luke 15:10. In fact it says that is joy within the presence of angels. That would include God too.
But by saying this, burning ship, you are taking the matter OUT of Gods hand. He's the one that GIVES us faith. He's the one that GIVES us Grace. HE'S the one that gives us salvation.
Yes Brotherdan, I think God gives freely to us all. This does not mean we cannot spurn his gifts. This does not mean we can't love lesser things more than greater things.
God DOES react to us. The Bible specifically states that we can make God's heart rejoice. That is a reaction that he gets from us.
Dear Brotherdan. God is immutable, he does not change. There are Scriptures that say this.
This webpage does a fairly good job explaining it, IMHO. It cites the Scriptures as well.
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-change-mind.html
When you take that away, you begin to look at God as a formless mystical entity that is almost unknowable to us. That's fine if that is your belief. But it's not what is taught in the scriptures.
Brotherdan, we see through a glass darkly.
God, in his totality, is beyond our comprehension. For example, here I call God a "he"-- as if God was a man. We speak of God in a human way, because we are human beings.
Yet even in our current state, we can sense aspects of God, like blind men touching an elephant. Even so, these glimpses blind us with their magnificence. His ways are not our ways. They are far higher. God, however, has deigned to communicate with us in ways that we can understand. Like a father speaking to a small child, he has used terms comprehensible to us. He has revealed himself to us in various ways and in different times and places. He has even condescended to take human form for us to have something comprehensible that we can relate to. In doing so, he has provided us with a Way to be with him forever, and see him face to face.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13:12&version=KJV
BTS
brotherdan
I don't know if I can give a more clear scripture than the one I gave you in Proverbs.
My point is, it's in the way you interpreted the verse. It does not say in so many words that we can make God's heart rejoice. I agree with the verse that a wise son brings joy to a father. see Proverbs 10:1 These are proverbs of Solomon, so we can see the parallel with Christ bringing joy to God the Father.
Eph 1:5
he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
We are chosen in Christ (God's plan) which does bring JOY to God. Remember our deeds are predestined as well and part of that plan. We can only bring Joy to God through what Christ has already done.
Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Both stories are bullshit.I view salvation as to live a good life and turn the switch off the light goes out.end of story.
B
Hello bobid...I don't know if Good gets it done...what about Jesus...then end of story.
Peace. -BH
brotherdan
Genesis 6:6,7 it says, "The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth - men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air - for I am grieved that I have made them." Did God do this? No, He changed His mind and saved Noah, his family, and the animals.
This actualy makes my point. God didn't react to Noah. Noah reacted to God's plan, which was to love Noah from the beginning.
Paul gave this advice in Phillipians 4:6,7 - "Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." We ask, he responds.
You're right, in that praying our requests to God brings peace, in every circumstance of life. Trust God that what ever the outcome, your answer was in the plan before the beginning. Notice "your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus" goes back to Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
But where does it say that a MANS PRAYER can change Gods mind? Look at Exodus 32:10 - "Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make YOU (Moses) into a great nation." But Moses pleaded for the people and finally God said in vs 14: "Then the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened. "
You speak as though God changed his plan,
Exo 32:32
But now, if you will forgive their sin--but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written." 33 But the LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book. 34 But now go, lead the people to the place about which I have spoken to you; behold, my angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them." 35Then the LORD sent a plague on the people, because they made the calf, the one that Aaron made.
So I ask did God change his plan or change Moses?
He is not a distant entity that couldn't care less about us.
I didn't suggest anything of the sort. He cared about me, and changed me, while I was his enemy. He cared about me before he created the universe.
