by yknot 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Ok, this is much better reading. So, one of the things that may get you removed is declaring bankruptcy. I love this one - "did the brother lack self-control in his spending or fail to use reasonable foresight in his business decisions"
I thought this was a spiritual position, what does being a good businessman have to do with it? Is it me or does this seem weird? I guess I missed that particular qualification in Titus and Timothy.
MLE - LOL!
One thing I'm glad about leaking this particular chapter is for those that are young and "reaching out." If you're reading this, don't make the same mistake that I and so many others have made. Every now and then I think to myself how different and less stressful my life would be had I declined that nonsense when they pulled me aside in the multipurpose room. You know it says something when most young men are smart enough to see through the nonsense and don't reach out, but then there's those weaker of us who aren't mature or experienced enough to realize we're dealing with con men looking to sabotage and suck the life out of us. This chapter serves as a warning. When it comes to resigning you'd thing you've joined a prison gang with a blood in, blood out policy.
EE - I agree and I recall when I resigned the COBOE told me, "you can't just quit" to which I said, "is this the mob?" and laughed. They refused my resignation for a few weeks and had numerous meetings with me. But, I calmly told them I needed to take care of my family, cited a few scriptures that proved my family was to be my main concern and they relented. They offered me the light duty option mentioned in 3:25 and I did have to write a letter which was forwarded and I'm sure is on permanent file with the WTS (hi again guys! my letter was pretty boring and I'm sure you just skimmed it).
No change in procedure that I can see but I agree they try to make it difficult to just quit.
I honestly don't think they can understand why anyone would want to resign. After all, holy spirit appointed you, right? So, it's really a sin to resist the calling. Remember, the folks writing these things don't live in the real world, don't have real jobs and aren't really worried about keeping the lights on. They don't have kids to worry about and they're located in congregations that are sometimes made up of 75% of others just like them.
The COs have a bit more perspective and the ones I would consider good can empathize with the rank and file. But, IMHO, they are few and far between.
MLE - I totally agree with you. If I had only known!!
my god, how much bullshit do you have to put up with to be an elder? can you imagine how beaten down you must be as an elder reading this horse shit, and having to go to the training schools? how would you possibly have time to work and care for your family? i mean chapter 2 was fucking crazy!
Page 30 para 2 - "The Governing Body and its representatives rely heavily upon your good judgment and spiritual discernment in making your recommendations." Looks like they are going on record as saying they don't having anything to do with appointments.
page 35 para 13 "If the brother has not previously served as an elder or a ministerial servant, ask the following question: "Have you ever been involved at
any time in the past with child sexual molestation?"
Is this new?
I've been kind of holding off on discussing this book due to not having had the time to really delve into to it, and also a little bit of a guilt complex. Lets get into this now before the Ambien kicks in.
If a brother resigns for personal reasons, two elders should discuss the matter with him. Let the interogation begin. Questions needing to be considered are, 1. Why does he wish to resign? 2. Is he Scripturally disqualified? 3. If his personal circumstances hinder him from doing what he would like, can the elders be of any assistance and encouragement? How about its none of their business? They also mention that when the Service Committe writes the Brand office, they should give sufficient information so that the reasons for resignation are clear. They want full details as to why he relinquished his privilege of service. In other words he may be a problem in the future, especially in this day and age of the internet, email, and Facebook.
What kind of nonsense is that? Seriously. I thought religion was supposed to be fulfilling, encouraging, bringing you closer to God. I don't know how familiar all of you are with prison gangs. Your most notorious gangs typically operate on a blood in, blood out policy, meaning you have to commit extreme violence to get in, and the only way out is with your life. Well, because prison staff needs intelligence on the inner workings on gangs, and also the need to keep peace in their facilities, they allow prison gang members to "debrief" which is a cute word for dropping out of the gang. What does that entail? Several months of the gang member spilling his guts on everything he knows about the gang from various assaults, murders, secret codes, drugs coming in and being sold in the prison, possibly testifying against their former gang brothers, etc.. This process takes several months to verify the gang member is legit, and not looking for a chance to get in the same population as other former gansters so he can make a hit on a legitimate dropout. The process is humiliating, and one might argue its necessary. The ironic part of it all is, when the member debriefs, he's placed on a prison yard with inmates who can never be in general population again. He's placed on a sensitive needs yard with other gang dropouts, snitches, rapists, child molesters, homosexual victims, etc.. Basically he's labled as no good. No only was he humiliated throughout the process of dropping out, but he's now amongst the lowest of the low in the prison. You might want to look up the riots in Ohio Prison and New Mexico to see what the general population inmates did upon gaining control of the prison and getting access to inmates who were in protective custody.
The similarities between that and resigning from being an Elder at least in my opinion are apparent. To resign from being an Elder, or be removed is one of the lowest of the low. First you have to go through the agony of actually making the decision of resigning. Then you have to debrief as I mentioned above. Depending on the congregation's makeup and your reputation, you being deleted is like being publically reproved for being spiritually weak. You're not quite as low as the disfellowshipped, but make no mistake about it, you're pathetic in the congregation's eyes. When they read your name off from the platform, it will come off like you're being punished regardless if you resigned or were removed by an ambitious CO. The brother will still go to the platform and go, "Bro such and so is no longer serving as an elder or ministerial servant." The only dignity in it is telling everybody before the meeting that you resigned and they're going to read your name off during the announcements, but not to worry because you weren't removed or anything, your wife's menopause was a little more jacked up than normal. Of course nobody will believe you, and you can promptly start associating with the other not-wanteds at the Hall. You know the ones, the single mother who has twins both having ADHD that everyone glares at for making too much noise during the meeting, the 17 year old high school kid who still hasn't gotten baptized, the widowed old man who talks too much and is too affectionate shaking your hand several times before and after the meeting, etc.. Yeah, your offically chopped liver.
Somebody told me this was a Christian organization, and that Jesus supposedly chose them out of all the other churches around in 1919. For some reason this group stood out.
Well Misery....
This thread is to help Elders prepare for KS too!
Afterall this is JWN where we discuss all things JW ......
I would assume an Elder would have more fun studying here with us because he can post his 'true' feelings without getting kicked in the nutsack!
Now go to sleep let the magic Ambien pill take you away with the bootylicious dream fairy......
Hugs
(note if you are a 'lurking' elder--- register and tell us your thoughts-- I take negative as well as positive.... come on get it off your chest!)
Something else I just caught reading page 43 of this book. If the oordinator or secretary is being deleted, fill out and include the Coordinator of the Body Elders/Secretary Change of Address (S-29) form.
Also, it states, Information concerning the deletion of an elder or a ministerial servant should be retained indefinitely in the congregation's confidential file. Such background material will be helpful in supplying the branch office with complete details in the event the brother is recommended for reapointment in the future.
Reading that made me wonder...........did the first century Christians have any inkling that what they were involved with in their day would lead to this? Would they have ever wanted to be part of what appears to be a buerocracy? This book is almost on par with the Federal Goverment.
