"The Watch Tower is a Wicked Organization ...

by snowbird 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  isaacaustin

  Ren/debator said:

  Hi Brotherdan

  1/ 1914 is derived from Bible chronology and prophecy we are allowed to use both of these and indeed are supposed to.

  My reply: It is derived from unrelated texts misapplied and hinges on an incorrect date.

  Reniaa/Bator said:

  2/ The bible itself calls him the Angel of the covenant.

  Malachi 3:1 Amplified bible
  BEHOLD, I send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me. And the Lord [the Messiah], Whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; the Messenger or Angel of the covenant, Whom you desire, behold, He shall come, says the Lord of hosts.

  My reply: And also makes clear he is not Michael the archangel.

  Reniaa said:

  3/ what are Christians? and was Jesus a man?

  Acts 26:28-29 (New International Version)

  28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, "Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?"

  29 Paul replied, "Short time or long—I pray God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains."

  My reply: Not sure your point here...

  Reniaa said:

  4/ They haven't made a single false prophecy as they have never claimed inspiration ever.

  My reply: Already proven they have.

  Reniaa said:

  5/ We do not speak ancient Hebrew the bible inspired in three different languages allows for transliterated names from one language to another. Jehovah uses all of YHWH the complete name of God in written hebrew. Think about the English form of Jesus you use that bears little resemblance to the original Yeshua or yehoshuah or Iesous that are his name in different languages. You condemn from the an unbiblical preposition that God wants us all to speak Ancient hebrew or that his name only counts in that language alone (a rule you only use on Jehovah's name and apply to no other name least of all Jesus's)

  My reply: Pronunciation not an issue...witnesses claim they are the only true religion because of the use of a propner noun, by their own standards they don't even have it right.

  Reniaa said:

  6/ 144,000 is a Bible teaching and so is Jesus choosing his firstfruits to be kings and priests with him in heaven. He mediates a covenant with them that effects all mankind. But if you think Everyone will be kings and Priests in heaven over a few sheep and goats on earth that is your choice.

  My reply: Again, misapplied and misinterpreted by being strung with unrelated texts and engineered to the self-serving interests of the WT.

  Reniaa said:

  7/ Acts 1:8 is not about using a name but about what we preach and we do preach and witness about Jesus we just don't lop off his father and stick Jesus on his throne. Jesus said it himself.

  John 17:1-3

  1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father,.... 3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

  Jehovah our Father and Jesus are not a multiple choice. We have to witness about both as Jesus himself witnesses about his father too.

  Revelation 1:5
  Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness

  My reply: You certainly do not preach Jesus. You preach joining the JWs as the only means to salvation.

  Reniaa said:

  8/ The bible never calls the holy spirit a person it is always refered in neuter terms and as God's power (literally the "breath of God") john 1:1 is notable like many other proof texts for trinity in it's lack of mention of holy spirit. When jesus and his father are picture in heaven they are both together but the spirit is never pictured as a person.

  My reply: It is said to do things only one with personality can do..as well as it is lied to.

  Reniaa said:

  9/ total lie! we have never taught that salvation is through works. We have always taught that our Faith motivates true Christians to do works.

  My reply: The org claims that salvation is by undeserved kindness...but it is belied by them also teaching that if one does not do WT-prescribed works one will not make it.

  Reniaa said:

  10/ like I saids earlier It willl be a rather full heaven that makes a lie out of the promises in isaiah if everyone goes to heaven.

  My reply: You misunderstand heaven as a geographical location far off from earth. When sin no longer separates man from God and New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven, heaven and earth will be one.

  Reniaa You need to research your Bible more!
• 

  mamalove

  It has destroyed relationships and brought some closer. In some way's I am grateful, and some ways I abhor it.
• 

  brotherdan

  1. 1914 is based on an erroneous date of 607 BCE

  2. The word "angel" means messenger. Read the scripture I referred to in Hebrews 1 to see if Jesus is an ACTUAL angel

  3. While Russell said that it would be wrong to call themselves anything BUT Christians, Rutherford took that away and gave it a different name. Acts 1:4, read it. Pray about it. And ask, "Why JEHOVAH'S Witnesses and not Jesus?"

  4. They have made countless false prophecies and said that they came directly from the INSPIRED Bible. You can't say that you are given divine truth from the Holy Spirit and then say, "But we are not inspired." That is called a distinction without a difference. Your org is guilty of this in MANY ways. They change terms all the time. THEY ARE FALSE PROPHETS! If you are interested I will look up the article, but they themselves said that a false prophet is one that claims to speak for God and says things that he DID NOT SAY.

  5. The vowels were not removed from Jesus name. They WERE removed from the divine name. So you CANNOT KNOW what God's name is. The WT themselves admit this. The name "Jehovah" was created by a monk in the 15th century.

  6. The Great Crowd is in heaven too (Rev 19:1)

  7. If this is true, then why did the apostle Paul focus ALL of his attention on Jesus? Why did he claim to "know NOTHING but Christ crucified?" (1Cor 2:2) Why were they dying for "the name" (Jesus)? Why did they follow "The Way" (Jesus is the Way). I can't get into all of this, but the Trinity is a biblical teaching. But you have to be ready for honest examination to ever get to that point. I tend to think that may be beyond you at this point.

  8. The Holy Spirit is a person. Why?

  --The Holy Spirit has a mind (see Romans 8:27).
  --The Holy Spirit helped to settle questions during the Church Council at Jerusalem (see Acts 15:28).
  --The Holy Spirit dispenses gifts to different individuals according as He wills (see 1 Corinthians 12:8-11).
  --The Holy Spirit forbade some from going to preach in certain places (see Acts 16:6-7).
  --The Holy Spirit anointed Jesus and sent Him out to preach the gospel (see Luke 4:18-19); In fact, both
  the Father and the Holy Spirit sent Jesus (see Isaiah 48:16).
  --The Holy Spirit testifies or witnesses of Jesus (see John 15:26).
  --The Holy Spirit leads God’s people (see Romans 8:14).
  --The Holy Spirit teaches and causes us to remember the truth (John 14:26).
  --The Holy Spirit comforts us as does Christ (John 14:16).
  --The Holy Spirit strives with us (see Genesis 6:3).
  --The Holy Spirit reproves us of sin, righteousness, and judgment (see John 16:8-11).
  --The Holy Spirit instructs us (see Nehemiah 9:20).
  --The Holy Spirit speaks, guides, hears and shows (John 16:13-15).
  --The Holy Spirit speaks, chooses, calls and sends forth (see Acts 13:1-4).
  --The Holy Spirit gives messages to prophets and they declare: “Thus saith the Holy Ghost” (see Acts
  21:11).
  --The Holy Spirit has knowledge, and searches all things (see 1 Corinthians 2:10-11).
  --The Holy Spirit sanctifies us (see Romans 15:16).
  --The Holy Spirit holds communion with us (see 2 Corinthians 13:14); and so does Christ (see 1
  Corinthians 1:9).
  --The Holy Spirit is the source of regeneration and renewal for salvation (see John 3:5-8; Titus 3:5).
  --The Holy Spirit resurrects the faithful from the dead (see Romans 8:11; 1 Peter 3:18).
  --The Holy Spirit is the author of the Bible and moved upon the prophets to speak (see 2 Peter 1:21).
  --The Holy Spirit is another Comforter other than Christ (see John 14:16).
  --The Holy Spirit helps our infirmities (see Romans 8:26).
  --The Holy Spirit can be tempted and lied to (see Acts 5:3, 9).
  –The Holy Spirit can be blasphemed and sinned against (see Mark 3:28-29; Luke 12:10; Matthew 12:31).
  --The Holy Spirit is another Intercessor other than Christ (see Romans 8:26); The Spirit intercedes for us
  through prayer, while Christ intercedes for us through His precious blood, merits and righteousness.

  I recommend you do some more Bible research...

  9. I recommend you research what your own religion has said about works being a requirement for salvation

  10. Heaven is a big place. Plus, heaven is not in space. It is a different dimension. Revelation teaches that the heavenly city will be brought down to earth and there will not be a distinction between heaven and earth. God will reside with men.

  BOOYAH, debator!
• 

  carvin

  Great find Sylvia, thank you for sharing.

  Debator - Please I beg of you, open your eyes. If you love to WT org. that is fine, and if you want to defend it that is your right and possably your duty, and I don't fault you for that in any way. Nor should anyone else. However, if you truly believe the WT then you must surely believe that it is your duty to convert others so they can maybe have a chance to work their ass off and possably earn Jehovahs favor. If you really want to achieve that then make your arguements most of all honest and truthful. To say that the WT never claims to be inspired so therefore can not be false profits is a pathetic statement at the very least. If they are not inspired then why is it incumbent upon all witness to believe everything that is stated in the WT, change when it changes and never have the oppertunity to question the teachings. I know you will say that any witness can question anything blah, blah, blah. But we all know that is not true. I someone places themselves in a position of religious/spiritual authority above others and states that an event will happen that is a prophicy. Don't try and give a stupid responce to say that the WT is exempt in some way as it would only waste your time and ours.

  If you have any real and rational things to say please share as I am always open to learn new things and I am still searching for understanding.
• 

  thetrueone

  1914 is derived from Bible chronology and prophecy we are allowed to use both of these and indeed are supposed to.

  Mis-informed again Debator, nowhere in the bible through Christ's words did he say he would present a calculable date

  to his Faithful Discrete Slave on to his return, either did he state he would return invisibly as well.

  The 7 times 70 calculation was self imposed by the writers of the Watchtower Corporation alone.

  And no your not suppose to calculate numbers and make prophetic date calculations and then sell them openly to the public.

  The problem is Debator is that your not a true Christian a follower of Christ your a follower of bogus Publishing organization.

  Debator you need to research your Bible more and not the un-scriptural Watchtower publishing company !

  If you cant see through this wholehearted somewhat obvious corruption then you truly are a corrupt person yourself.

  No wonder you reject the truth when its presented to you.

  Personal integrity means something to most people obviously it doesn't to you
• 

  leavingwt

  Here's another example of how great the WT organization really is.

  The elders knew about a violent crime against a child and didn't contact the police.

  The victim revealed the abuse to relatives last year and later went to police. Gold later gave details of his offending to police, although at one stage during an interview he said he felt sick.

  The court heard that when the boy was seven Gold had begun kissing and cuddling him and assured him it was alright to do such things. But over time his behaviour escalated and he began performing sex acts on the child.

  The youngster was also taken out canvassing by Gold in his capacity as a Jehovah's Witness and he would take him to the Kingdom Hall. But as a teenager the victim revealed to elders at his church what had been taking place.

  Advocate depute Alison Di Rollo said they told him it was wrong and warned that if it continued he would be "dis-fellowshipped" as the church disapproved of homosexual behaviour. They also tried to persuade him to go to the police.

  Gold was also spoken to and said: "I wish I'd never started this."

  http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/203655-jehovahs-witness-jailed-for-sexually-abusing-boy/
• 

  snowbird

  Great find Sylvia, thank you for sharing.

  I found it about 10 years ago, when I began researching in earnest.

  I thought of it while reading Brother Dan's thread.

  Syl
• 

  serenitynow!

  Yes the org is wicked. Not the individual R&F, but the GB and other upper-level people. The multi-layered psychological conditioning proves to me that they are wicked. Nothing they do is by accident. It is a diabolical organization.
• 

  OUTLAW

  No we Jehovah's Witnesses aren't!.....debator/Reniaa

  The WBT$ and Jehovah`s Witness`s are 2 seperate organizations..

  They are not 1 and the Same..

  You don`t belong to either organization..

  Cheerleading the WBT$ does not make you a Jehovah`s Witness..

  Give me a "S".. Give me a "T".. Give me a "U".. Give me a "P" .. Give me a "I".. Give me a "D"..

  What does it Spell?..

  Reniaa!!..

  ............................. ...OUTLAW
• 

  sir82

  8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

  What gospel was preached then?

  I'm pretty sure it wasn't "Would you like to read the latest copy of the Awake magazine? It has a fascinating article on the history of marshamllows. And it's all Bible-based."