by Open mind 20 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
LadyLee writes:
if the second victim is not a Witness kid than they will not use it as the second witness. They use the word "credible" witness and that word rules out non-Witness kids.
So basically, if a JW is a child molester, it's open season on non-JW kids. And yet, these @$$holes are REQUIRED to go Door-to-Door™, they can do it any damn time they please - regardless of whether the WTS's Official Policy™ is that they should be monitored / chaperoned by another JW.
They have ways to test children to see if they are being in any way truthful.
If they really care that is..
I wonder what they do if the accused molester inappropriately touches a juvenile/exposes theirself to a minor but doesn't go any further? Does the degree of the crime count towards their punishment?
Just make them stand in the corner for a lesser crime?
From what I have read they can be controlled but not cured..why would the WTBTS ever allow them to go in service with a child/be alone with a child/sit next to a child at meetings etc. after a period of time/ probation passed?
Snoozy
I just read some of the links and one thing stood out to me..it said that if someone is shown to be a child molester/abuser they risk being disfellowshipped and put out of the congregation.
Does this really happen? Do they lose access to the Kingdom halls? That contradicts what I have previously read.
Snoozy
It's a risk but it doesn't happen. Heck my abuser wasn't even baptized. He and my mother were living together and studying. Granted that was over 40 years ago but this is an org that isn't known for changing the way they do things.
They allow it because they don't see it as a crime or as an illness that can't be cured.
They simply see it as a sin that one should repent of and get over.
And yes Scully open season on everyone else. They are probably all dead anyways so what does the WTS care about them
Being disfellowshipped puts you outside of the congregation, but doesn't mean you can't attend meetings. So I would think, they can still go, they'd just be shunned while there. Certainly, doesn't stop them from using the restroom; especially troubling if no one else in the cong knows the reason for df. Are cong parents instructed not to let their kids go unsupervised when this person is present?
And there was a BOE letter that said court evidence or conviction can be used as the second witness. It was on Silentlambs. But that might have been a letter just to Canada or Britain or the US or all of them, I don't remember. It's still insane that they don't state that in the manual. A very important thing to omit. That and not reporting to the authorities immediately.
Most of the real stuff the elders won't get until they go to the elder's school where they will have to write in the margins all the really secret rules
OM - excellent question and a significant omission from "mother" :)
I am inclined to agree with you that DNA evidence could be used as the second witness, but I don't know for sure. Another thought is that they could make a simple announcement that "so and so is no longer one of JWs". They use this approach for those who join the military or another religion. I wonder if they would use this with a convicted child molester.
zarco
I have a feeling that DNA evidence that proves guilt would generally be used after they have called the society for directions.
The elders would probably insist that the brother come clean or would simply DF or even DA him when he goes to jail.
Here is their present policy:
http://www.jw-media.org/aboutjw/article23.htm
I can't quote, as it's copyrighted!
Allow me to paraphrase.
Two elders meet separately with the accused abuser and the accuser (victim). If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position in each other’s presence, with elders also there.
An absolutely horrid experience for young Johnny or Suzy to have to be put through. "Well, he denies it so say to his face what you said he did." They really need to consult experts before putting a child through that.
If the accused still denies the charges and there are no other witnesses who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time.
They cannot warn people or nothing.
Even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in their country, if local privacy laws permit.
....or call secretly if the laws do not permit. Call the WTS first and foremost to protect their interests ahead of the victim's interests.
The elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, the elders receive proper legal direction to ensure that they comply with the law.
No more, no less. Comply with the barest minimal requirements of the law.
If the accused confesses that he is guilty of child abuse, the elders take appropriate congregational action. If he is not repentant, he will not be permitted to remain a member of the congregation. Even if he is repentant, he would not qualify for suck-ass positions such as M.S., elder, Pioneer.
And of course, that's the most important thing-that they determine his qualifications for suck-ass positions. Much higher priority than protecting the children.
In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been appointed to positions within the congregation if their conduct has been otherwise exemplary for decades. All the factors are considered carefully. Suppose, for example, that a long time ago an 18-year-old male had sexual relations with a 15-year-old girl who was a willing participant. Depending upon the U.S. jurisdiction where he lived when this happened, elders may have been required to report this as an incident of child abuse. Let us say that 20 years have passed. He has been living an exemplary life and he is respected. In such a case, the man could possibly be appointed to a responsible position within the congregation.
They throw in one sort of REASONABLE example in case some serious suck-asses manage to be appointed in some pretty unreasonable situations. They can say this was just an example.
I've had an elder ,when put on the spot, admit that DNA evidence was admissable as a witness but he had to go away and check this out . But when challenged on where he got this information he was pressed to tell me where , but it is not in any of the societies literature as far as I know , so it stands that they twist and turn and have their own opinions when the need calls for it and the society leaves elders with no hard direction except to decieve.
The two witness rule is shot down with one scripture in the old testament ,I think in Leviticus somewhere where it talks about a woman in the field who is raped ,goes to the city and tells of her ordeal and the perpetrator is put to death on her evidence only (if other workers were in the field with her surely they would have come to here aid or reported the incident but the bible says nothing of tis and takes the victims word for it) don't have a bible here but someone here will find the account. I've put this to the society and their answer was to disfellowship me!
To see what the societies way of handling things is ,consider my ex wifes case where the elders said they carefully looked for evidence and witnesses but found none ,but when I asked them whether they handled things like the police do by questioning possible witnesses, they had to stay silent as to whether they had questioned my ex's siblings!!!!!! They had not even done this and took the word of her molestor father ,pathetic religion and human beings that are running it!!
Hope someone can find that scripture ,I posted about it before but not being a student of the bible any more I just can't remember it,sorry.
