Thought stopper: "We are the only ones doing what Jesus did." (page 5)

brotherdan

I found something from the reasoning book that destroys this claim. Usually this comes after accusing the Watchtower Society of being a false prophet.

Notice what they themselves say on page 133:

Ability to perform “great signs,” or “miracles,” is not necessarily proof of a true prophet

Matt. 24:24: “False Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs [“miracles,” TEV] and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.”

2 Thess. 2:9, 10: “The lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved.”

So just because they are doing this work, and it seems like a great sign...that is not proof of a true prophet.

sabastious

So, Watchtower can continue crossing land and sea to proselytize, just like the scribes and Pharisees before them. But Jesus warned that their message would take them all straight to hell.

Witnesses would counter by saying that they are the only one's proclaiming God's Kingdom and that will turn the debate into a stalemate since you can't convince a Witness that they are not doing this.

-Sab

donuthole

Very true. Most conversations with JW's about the flaws of the Organization lead down to this and when they say the "preaching work", they primarily think of going house-to-house, door-to-door. I think this is one reason why the door-to-door method has become a staple even though it is having diminishing returns.

The reality is very easy to deconstruct even though most Witnesses are unwilling to go there. Jesus didn't engage in a preaching work in the same manner as Witnesses do today. In fact the Bible contains an explicit instruction that his apostles "not be transfering from house to house". Even if the manner was correct the good news message that Witnesses claim to preach is not the same preached by Jesus and those after him.

Jesus did say that his followers would be identified, not by the preaching work, but by their love. Are Jehovah's Witnesses today characterized by their love? I know most JW's would say "yes, definitely" and could maybe cite some examples about not going to war or helping out in times of crisis. Put the same question to some of their abandoned elderly brothers and sisters rotting in nursing homes and you might get a different answer.

brotherdan

Yes, but teaching specific doctrine was not what the preaching work was to be about. Paul said that he knew nothing but Christ and him impaled (1Cor 2:2)

So preaching anti-trinity doctrine, anti-immortal soul doctrine, etc was never to be the deciding factor of a true prophet.

myelaine

dear PSacremento...

God brings everyone into "judgement" to choose Jesus Christ. if you choose Jesus Christ you pass from judgement to life.

The JW"S are sheep wanting a sheperd or they wouldn't be there. where ever they were gathered from they didn't KNOW the True Sheperd that would heal them and strengthen them to go out into the world and preach the Good News of Jesus Christ.

(imo) if the GB would recognize that they are to actually(instead of lip service) TRUST that God IS indeed leading the preaching work they would be willing to let go of their control over the preaching/doctrine and allow God to do His work in and through the JW'S...but as it is the GB is hindering the advancement of Truth because they haven't told their "people" the Truth so that they can pass it on. The churches teach and they don't stiffle the Truth. the "flock" is "brought to God" to be led "individually"to preach or do charity work or minister to the spiritually wounded of contribute to the wellfare of OTHERS (or even just live in fath and hope in Jesus to "carry" them through life). the GB have spent far to much time micro managing every aspect and thought of the individual JW that they have become dependant on THEM for everything...they are still lame and unable(and MORE abused). Is this the work of God? I don't think so...I think God is bringing the GB into judgement by providing "sheep" for them to do what they want with...but will they DO what God wants them to do?...malachi 1:6-14...2:1-2

love michelle

PSacramento

Jesus did say that his followers would be identified, not by the preaching work, but by their love.

Correct and Paul reiterated with, " if we don't have love, we have nothing".

God brings everyone into "judgement" to choose Jesus Christ. if you choose Jesus Christ you pass from judgement to life.

God brings everyone to love through his grace that comes from Our lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. God brinsg people to Christ, not to ANY organization.

The JW"S are sheep wanting a sheperd or they wouldn't be there. where ever they were gathered from they didn't KNOW the True Sheperd that would heal them and strengthen them to go out into the world and preach the Good News of Jesus Christ.

They are sheep, that they are, misguided and slow to understand, truly they are hard headed and hard hearted and follow the will of men.

They truly are witnesses to their version of OT God, they certainly are NOT CHOOSING to be witnesses to Christ.

Elder-Patrol

Anti-JWs sound silly when they pretend that early Christians did not preach in private homes.

(Matthew 10:12-14) When you are entering into the house, greet the household; and if the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. Wherever anyone does not take you in or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city shake the dust off your feet.

It's certainly not wrong to report godly activity.

(Luke 7:17-18) And this news concerning him spread out into all Judea and all the surrounding country. Now John’s disciples reported to him about all these things.

There have been individuals who seemed to "perform great signs", but how many groups have for decades been performing an intensive global preaching campaign?

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

It's just a little too convenient for anti-JWs to pretend that Christian evangelism is unimportant.

debator

Using imperfection of man as an argument is just silly. It has always about what God's people do despite making mistakes and how much we have faith in Jehovah rather than pointing the finger at our imperfection.

One of the reasons I am a Jehovah's witness is there ability to recognise and be refined from mistakes that they accept will happen.

Daniel 11:35
Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.

That ability to recognise and rectify mistakes means they do listen to the bible and do the commands we are given like preaching work, using God's name, reocgnising simple bible truths etc.

Zechariah 13:9
This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'Jehovah is our God.' "

The real question is why doesn't faith in God inspire christendom to do the preaching work first and formost?

brotherdan

It has always about what God's people do

Salvation by works, you mean, debator?

I gave you the scripture where Jesus said that false prophets would DO many powerful works.

Matt. 24:24: “False Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs [“miracles,” TEV] and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.”

Did that make them true prophets? Nope. Sorry.

PSacramento

One of the reasons I am a Jehovah's witness is there ability to recognise and be refined from mistakes that they accept will happen.

And here everyone says you have no sense of humor !!

Thought stopper: "We are the only ones doing what Jesus did."

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