1st Post! and the topic of Grace

by GOrwell 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Chalam

  Welcome GOrwell!

  The WT do not preach grace because they are actually preaching salvation by works.

  JWs are slaves to the WT and the "works" they dictate.

  This verse sums it up true salvation.

  Romans 11:6 (English Standard Version)

  6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

  And this passage

  Romans 4:1-8 (New International Version)

  Abraham Justified by Faith

  1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

  4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
  7 "Blessed are they
  whose transgressions are forgiven,
  whose sins are covered.
  8 Blessed is the man
  whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

  And this

  Acts 16:31 (New International Version)

  31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household."

  Blessings in Christ,

  Stephen
• 

  Curtains

  Hi G Orwell

  this has been my bugbear too. The NT was not orginally written in English. "undeserved kindness" is an english idea incorporating Calvinistic forms of interpretation and taking those to awful limits. Grace doesn't fully in modern english resonate with what the original is trying to convey either because to me this is an older english word and also sounds quite churchy in the oldfashioned sense and may turn many modern people away.

  I think we need to employ a range of english words to bring out the full flavour of the word translated grace. Joyful spirit, generous spirit, welcoming spirit - I think all the fruits of the spirit fit with the greek.

  Undeserved kindess takes one down a blind ally and this is a case of how restricting meaning leads to hardship and misery in Jehovahs witness spiritual life becaue they have very little to work in always seeing the word undeserving, undeserved repeated. This cultivates feelings of inferiority, lack of self esteem and goes in the opposite direction to the welcoming feel of christlike things.
• 

  Think About It

  Welcome GOrwell. Glad you joined & posted. This is interesting. Seems like I remember reading here that the translators of the NWT had a word for word translation rule, and thats why loose conduct was used instead of brazen, which now I believe they are back to brazen. Wonder if they used the same rule for undeserved kindness instead of grace, or that they just hated that word and concept.

  Of course JW's believe in grace, but it is a lesser concept to them than works. Try not going out in FS and you will see. Like everything else the WTS leaders could use to separate themselves from the churches, I think the word grace and the concept was another thing they used.

  Think About It
• 

  ProdigalSon

  "Grace" just doesn't cut it for a fear-based cult. And then of course the Watchtower has to be different from everyone else in every sense possible in order to maintain the illusion that it's the one-and-only "truth". Since the truth is that our Divinity is within and hence the first commandment is to love ourselves, the Watchtower goes diametrically opposite in its teachings...that we are worthless servant-dung just begging for God to allow us to keep breathing after he wipes out the 99.99999 percent of humanity who couldn't live up to his gnat-straining Pharisee standards.

  There is no way to evolve spiritually while in such a mindset, so what the Watchtower does is very effective in making sure that its followers remain spiritually dead, while under the delusion that they are spiritual trailblazers.
• 

  snowbird

  Welcome, GOrwell.

  Please see: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200266/1/Grace-According-to-JWs-Your-thoughts-will-be-appreciated

  Blessings.

  Syl
• 

  wasblind

  GOrwell, welcome ,welcome,welcome
• 

  Ding

  Great username, given the parallels between the Watchtower Society and Big Brother!

  When looking at WT terms, one thing always to look for is how they emphasize works and guilt.

  You yourself mentioned "exercise faith"as a substitute for "believe."

  "Exercise faith" is meant always to trigger the thought, "Faith without works is dead."

  That's meant to trigger thoughts of how you always need to do MORE, MORE, MORE work in service of the organization.

  Why aren't you pioneering?

  So it is with the expression "undeserved kindness."

  "Grace" focuses the attention on God's kindness and generosity.

  "Undeserved kindness" focuses the attention on UNDESERVED.

  In Watchtowerland, you're never good enough; you've never done enough; you HOPE you've done enough to survive Armageddon but deep down you're scared.

  That's how the WTS keeps its whole carrot and stick works salvation system going.
• 

  GOrwell

  thanks all for your comments. 1984 is indeed my favourite book - I think I've read it at least 4-5 times, and the correlations to the WT or any authoritarian organization are spot on. Truly, when you control the language and its' meaning, you control people.

  Snowbird, thanks for the discussion link. I couldn't seem to find much via the search function.

  See you all around. I might make a proper intro post, but it might take awhile. Some family is still inside, so we'll see.

  thanks again!
• 

  Mattieu

  Welcome, nice to have you on board GOrwell. Cheers, Mattieu
• 

  sabastious

  Grace is a loving concept, underserved kindness is a guilt concept.

  JWs chose the latter.

  -Sab