The Doctrine of Hell

by Yizuman 226 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  TTWSYF

  These are some physical references of hell. Jesus decended to hell after his death on the cross/torture tree. The following are from the JW bible.

  NWT - EPH ch4 vs 9 Now the expression “he ascended,” what does it mean but that he also descended into the lower regions, that is, the earth? 10 The very one that descended is also the one that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might give fullness to all things

  N WT - MATH ch12- vs 40 For just as Jo´nah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

  respectfully,

  DC
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  Ding

  The Trinity doctrine doesn't say that the Son is the Father or that the Son is the Holy Spirit or that the Father is the Holy Spirit.

  It says that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are separate persons who have separate roles and duties but that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three persons who comprise the one God, YHWH.

  The point I was making above is as follows:

  1. The Bible says that the ultimate judge is YHWH.

  2. Jesus said that the Father judges no one; the Son does.

  Conclusion: The Son is also YHWH and judgment is part of the Son's work within the Godhead -- not the Father's or the Spirit's.

  Put another way, if YHWH is the judge, and if only the Father is YHWH, then how can Jesus' statement that the Father judges no one be true?
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  designs

  Two Beings or One Being, who is Omnipresent and taking up all space and time. Now is Hell and the Devil inside this or a part of Everything. Where else is there room left, are the Devil and Hell in the Being of God and the Totality of his Holiness. If not is there someplace other than Everywhere.
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  Ding

  Satan is a created being.

  Hell is a place.

  The fact that God is omnipresent doesn't mean that created beings or places are a part of God or that they share His nature.
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  designs

  Ding-

  How is that possible with the Christian teaching of God's Attribute of Infinity which affirms He, The Trinity, is Everywhere. Where else is there.
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  Think About It

  How is that possible with the Christian teaching of God's Attribute of Infinity which affirms He, The Trinity, is Everywhere. Where else is there.

  If Jesus is an ominpresent part of this Trinity Godhead with the attribute of infinity, why did he have to go to hell if he was already there?

  Think About It
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  Ding

  Designs,

  << How is that possible with the Christian teaching of God's Attribute of Infinity which affirms He, The Trinity, is Everywhere. Where else is there. >>

  Being present somewhere doesn't imply identity with the location itself.

  You are present in your house, but your house is not you and does not share your nature.

  Water may fill your bathtub, but the water is not the bathtub.

  Since we are dealing with things the Bible says that are beyond our experience, in order to understand it as much as possible, it seems to me we need to affirm as true what it affirms as true. If, in doing that, we draw conclusions that contradict other things that the Bible affirms, then our conclusion about what the Bible is teaching are wrong.

  I realize that another option is to say that the Bible contradicts itself, but before doing that I think we should consider the limitations of our own understanding.

  Think About It,

  I don't understand how it all works.

  For example, in Genesis 11 God said, "Let us go down..."

  Since God is omnipresent, in what sense did He go anywhere?

  The Bible often uses language that we can relate to in order to describe things than we can't understand.
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  Think About It

  Think About It,

  I don't understand how it all works.

  For example, in Genesis 11 God said, "Let us go down..."

  Since God is omnipresent, in what sense did He go anywhere?

  The Bible often uses language that we can relate to in order to describe things than we can't understand.

  Thanks Ding. I'm just throwing things out there that come to mind. I'm 15 yrs removed from bible knowledge, but some of these dilemma's I do remember studying. There are some things the JW's taught that made more sense than the fundamentalists, and of course for me some of these things were logical beliefs I had before involvement with the JW's. I'm very rusty, and would rather throw out logical considerations, than look up scriptures on the internet that most of the time nobody pays attemtion to anyway.
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  Ding

  You're welcome.

  I've enjoyed the discussion.
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  Ding

  TTWSYF,

  One interpretation of the Ephesians passage you quoted is that when Jesus' body died, his spirit went to lead the spirits of the captives in the righteous side of Hades into heaven.

  In this view, Hades is the temporary place of the dead as described by Jesus in Luke 16.

  Note that in that story there was a righteous and unrighteous side to Hades with a great chasm in between so no one could cross over.

  Also in this view, Hell is the "lake of fire" spoken of in Revelation 20:14, which is the permanent place for Satan and his angels (Rev. 20:10-11) and unsaved human beings (Matthew 25:41; Rev. 20:15).

  Note that even in the NWT (1970 ed.), Rev. 20:10 says that the devil, the beast, and the false prophet will be "tormented day and night for ever and ever."

  I don't think the WTS' interpretation of this verse on pp. 172-173 makes a whole lot of sense, especially in view of Jesus' account of the rich man and Lazarus.

  The WTS quotes Ecclesiastes 9:5 to teach that the dead are conscious of nothing at all, but they don't accept Ecc. 9:6, which says that "they have no portion any more to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun."

  I think the key to Ecclesiastes is seeing that it refers to this present life "under the sun." It's not speaking about the "afterlife" in heaven or hades or hell at all.