Jesus carrying the torture stake?

by sacolton 26 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Mad Sweeney

  Sorry for the looonnnng delay in response. I didn't realize there was a question for me.

  You ever try digging a post hole, installing and stabilizing the post, then removing the post, and later doing it all over again in the same place? Without special equipment, the hole is way too wide to keep the post vertical unless you backfill all around it. Then, once you've backfilled the hole, you have to pack all that backfill soil down to keep it straight and steady. Assuming they did this, they then, allegedly, UNpacked the hole, lifted the near-500 lbs. up and out of it, removed the body from the cross/stake to bury him, and did what with the pole? Brought it back to town for the next victim, apparently.

  It isn't that the Romans couldn't have done this at all, it is that they couldn't be so stupid to try doing it over and over when it is SO MUCH more practical to just LEAVE the upright pole(s) in place. Doing this setup and removal time after time for victim after victim would quickly render the entire surface of the top of the hill very difficult to perform executions on. The hole would get wider every time. Soil would get packed down in many places and eroded/broken off in others. You'd have soldiers complaining about putting those freaking poles up and down all the time. Engineers would be fired for designing such a dumb system of execution when leaving the upright poles in place is something a little kid could think of.

  The Romans were pretty advanced for their day. I can't believe they'd have had the execution system as it is popularly portrayed.

  Once you get a post in the ground and solid, you leave it there.
• 

  PSacramento

  It's been the almost universal consensus of anyone that has done any real reasearch and study on the matter that Jesus carried the "cross beam" of his crucifixtion and even that was probably pretty heavy too, even more so considering his physical state after the beating and whipping.

  WHen he got there, he was nailed to the beam and hoisted up to a pre-marked place and the cross beam was fixed in place.

  Another possible method was to nail him to the beam, then nail the beam to the vertical post that was lying down and then lift the whole thing into the hole, but that would be far too much work and the Romans would have figured out a better way.

  There were quite effective at building cross and fortifications ( understatment).

  Another theory is that the cross beam was simply carried as punishment and that whe he got there the whole cross was alread up and he was put on the cross and nailed on it with it being already vertical.
• 

  Botzwana

  Notvery, That was hilarious! Thank you. Sampson had nothing on this guy!
• 

  freetosee

  @ notvery
• 

  frigginconfused

  PSacramento I agree. He carried the cross beam. So the JW's are only half right. Yes it was a stake. A singular pole. But once you fix the cross beam to it, it becomes a cross.
• 

  snowbird

  Seems the cross beam was then nailed to a tree.

  Both Peter and Paul said He was put to death on a tree.

  Syl
• 

  Mad Sweeney

  A tree would make sense, as it is a relatively permanent upright pole. Sane and intelligent people don't put poles in and out of the ground over and over.
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  PSacramento

  The "hanging on a tree" is in reference to the OT view that "anyone hung on a tree is acursed", Luke ( speaking for Peter) and Paul were making a statement that instead of being cursed, Jesus was exalted.
• 

  snowbird

  Peter:

  Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: KJV

  Paul:

  Acts 13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. KJV

  Both of those seasoned men point out that this happened to Jesus of Nazareth in fulfillment of Scripture. I believe it was an actual tree. See also this cryptic statement:

  Luke 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry? KJV

  Syl
• 

  snowbird

  One other thing that has puzzled me can be found here:

  John 19:32-33 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: KJV

  If there were crosses and they were lined up as thought by some, why would the soldiers break the leg of one criminal, bypass Jesus of Nazareth and go to the other criminal, instead of just proceeding 1-2-3?

  Now, if the three of them were hanging from one tree - one criminal to the right and one to the left of Jesus of Nazareth - this would make sense, as the soldiers would have had to work their way around the tree.

  Syl