NEED HELP ASAP
by BoomTown 34 Replies latest jw friends
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BoomTown
Its really tricky. She doesn't come out and say, "i question this and I question that".
She is bitter right now because someone had a get together and her little sisters(23 and 21 years old) weren't invited. She asked why and the girl responded, "we're trying to have only people who are trying to good come to the party. The 23 and 21 year olds are unbaptized and are typical college students.
So she is bitter that people are judging her family.
She really has never taken studying/doctrine seriously. I've had numerous conversations with her in the past and I've had to explain the witnesses beliefs before explaining why its wrong.
I'm just grasping for anything right now because I feel like this is the closest she has been in the last 18 months to having an open mind about discussing anything.
Even today she said, "I don't know anyone who has left and has improved their life"...and this was out of the blue so obviously she is either somewhat thinking about leaving.
She knows I'm "an apostate" but doesn't go to the elders because it would make life difficult. We agreed from the beginning, 18 months ago that we'd be open an honest with each other and that we would tolerate each others beliefs. At the time(18 months ago) when I decided to start fading, I was a ministerial servant but saw way too much hypocrisy in doctrine and the local elders. Want to know anything else?
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yknot
great call Zoiks!!!
Paul's site is a beauty!
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BoomTown
She has not expressed doubts about teachings but she hasn't went door to door in the last 6 months or so. Also, we had our first child 5 months ago and during the delivery things didn't go quite as planned and she gave me permission to give the doctors permission to use blood. I told her before we got pregnant that I wasn't going to let anyone kill her(not accept blood) based on false biblical teachings. She was on board the whole time and decided that if I made the decision she was still "safe for paradise". So she already isn't 100% "in" but at the same time won't admit the religion is wrong.
What else:Her three best friends are worldly. I've tried using the "So God is going to kill your 3 best friends at armageddon approach"...didn't work..but that was 6 months ago or so.
I told her that the JW's armageddon reminds me of September 11th and that really bothered her....but then again that was about a year ago.
We live in the town she grew up in so there is a lot of pressure from the local congo for her to keep going and it's the same congregation her parents go to. Her mother is crazy. She missed a meeting about a month ago and her mother said, "i cried myself to sleep last night because you guys weren't at meeting. Its so sad because you and your baby are going to die at armageddon." Talk about guilt trip city.
Hmmmmm....can't think of anything else.
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jwfacts
"what if they are right and armageddon comes."
You - What if Catholics are right and you go to hell?
Her - Yes, but Catholics are obviously wrong
You - They don't think so. Many educated, genuine Catholics have been led to believe they are the only truth. Well then, what if Seventh Day Adventists are right, and you die because you did not join them? They started from the same roots as the Watchtower and have similar beliefs. Is it fair you will die because you did not join them instead?
Her - No
You - Religion is a product of where you are born, not whether or not it is true.
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You need to work out what is important to her. Everyone is different. Some get upset by lack of love, some are upset by hypocrisy such as joining the UN, some by doctrine such as blood or shunning, others by dishonesty such as lies about what was said regarding 1914. The place to start is to find out what makes her think it is the truth, and what concerns her, and then you can address those issues.
Just make sure to end the conversation once she starts getting defensive, because at that point she is no longer listening and starting to reinforce her Watchtower views. You will actually see a phase shift in her look as she starts to recite information from rote, which is a sign it is time to change topics.
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Ding
You might ask her if she's surprised that JWs view non-baptized girls who are in college to be "worldly" or "bad association."
You could point out what the WTS has said about not getting an education.
For example, when the WTS was pushing 1975 as the appropriate time for Jehovah to bring Armageddon, they wrote in the June, 1969 Kingdom Ministry (p. 3), "Of course, there may be a tempting offer of higher education or of going into some line of work that promises material rewards. However, Jehovah God holds out to you young folks many marvelous privileges of service in his organization. Which will you decide to take up? In view of the short time left, a decision to pursue a career in this system of things is not only unwise but extremely dangerous."
The point of this would be to show her that this judgmentalism isn't coming from a few JWs; it's organizationally promotoed judgmentalism.
You might also build on her comment about not knowing anyone who has left and improved their life by asking her how she would know since the Watchtower forbids JWs from associating with people who have left the organization? Is she willing to email back and forth with any of the people here, people who have left the organization and improved their lives considerably?
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yknot
how about not 'pushing' but rather saying when she is ready to explore things you are here for her.......
tell her you know 'a few things, inconsistancies and such'...
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Ding
Yknot makes a good point.
That said, you know how your wife thinks; we don't.
The fact that she was willing to have a blood transfusion is really encouraging.
She's starting to think for herself or at least to hedge her bets.
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BoomTown
I'm just worried that the jw failsafes will kick in and she'll revert back to trying. This is what I tried earlier today.
The bible puts people in heaven and your religion takes them to paradise earth. That in itself should tell you something about armageddon and living into paradise. She didn't disagree with me so I continued and talked briefly about the 2 class crap. She then said,"well the bible says there is two classes. I backed off because I knew this wasn't going anywhere since she was started to defend.
I'll keep trying.
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AllTimeJeff
The best thing you can do is get her to listen to herself. What is she seeing? Draw her out. Let her hear herself think.
The biggest worry of the GB isn't apostate voices, it's you listening to your own voice. Ultimately, what she sees, and what she is willing to admit to herself, is the key to her own exit.
Like the Eagle's sang
Well I know it wasn’t you who held me down
Heaven knows it wasn’t you who set me free
So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains
And we never even know we have the key
Get her to see it for herself. Don't tell her, help her to get it out.