NEED HELP ASAP (page 3)

metatron

'What if they're right and Armageddon comes?' Flip the question around - what if they're wrong and you waste your entire life on sterile field service and boring meetings?

I think Blondie has the right impulse here- women remember bitter experiences - sometimes forever.

For me, the simple fact of false prophesy seals it - they predicted the End and took people's money for 130 years. If they are wrong about the central threat they hold over people's heads again and again and again, nothing else is trustworthy.

metatron

Ding

Arguing over doctrine doesn't seem to work with her.

All she does is play the WT tapes in her head and defend the Watchtower.

Let her tell you what's bothering her about the Watchtower encourage her to keep talking it through.

I agree with AllTimeJeff that it's far better to draw her out and let her hear herself think.

If she complains about people judging her family, you might say, "I guess they consider them worldly for going to college instead of getting baptized and pioneering."

If she gets angry at that, just shrug your shoulders and let her think.

Again, you know her; we don't.

So take what we say with a grain of salt and go with what seems best to you.

Don't criticize the Watchtower; let her criticize the Watchtower.

That would be my recommendation based on what you've said so far, but use your own judgment.

yknot

How about asking the simple question.....' what is the truth'? She will ramble on about the core three ( helfire, trinity, IoS maybe preaching) and you will say no the 'official WTS version of what exactly is their 'truth''. You can get the WTCD out and turn too (see reference below)

*** w81 5/1 p. 17 par. 3 If God Has an Organization, What Is It? ***
Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah’s Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah’s Witnesses is really “gospel,” or “good news,” as of God’s heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914.

Then you can say see honey they teach a 'different' gospel or good news and you know what Gal 1:6-9 says

(Galatians 1:6-9) 6 I marvel that YOU are being so quickly removed from the One who called YOU with Christ’s undeserved kindness over to another sort of good news. 7 But it is not another; only there are certain ones who are causing YOU trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.

Gee honey did you know the whole time Rutherford was coming up with majority of what is believed now he did so under the direction of Angels because he claimed 'holy spirit' had been taken away** in 1918! In fact honey it wasn't until Knorr's administration that 'it' was 'reinstated'! Heck dear 1914 as the invisible presences didn't occur in the literature until 1943, before that it was 1874***!

** Preservation, 1932, pp. 193, 194.

Salvation, 1939, pp. 216, 217.

*** The Truth Shall Make You Free, ch. 11

Or you could just print out the generations chart and talk about what people of each change believed....

http://www.sendspace.com/file/yaa4ga

Outaservice

Let her know in a nice way, that even if she attended all the meetings but was not 'whole souled' in her worship, i.e. doing absolutely all she can according to the Society she would not survive Armageddon anyway.

Outaservice

Scully

She is bitter right now because someone had a get together and her little sisters(23 and 21 years old) weren't invited. She asked why and the girl responded, "we're trying to have only people who are trying to good come to the party. The 23 and 21 year olds are unbaptized and are typical college students.

So she is bitter that people are judging her family.

She really has never taken studying/doctrine seriously. I've had numerous conversations with her in the past and I've had to explain the witnesses beliefs before explaining why its wrong.

This was the kind of nonsense that infuriated me when I was a JW.

The best scripture for this kind of situation is John 13:35

By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.

The favoritism, the cliques, the social exclusion amply demonstrate that the JWs do not have "the truth". My suggestion would be for the two of you to take up an activity that you can enjoy with other couples who are NOT JW. Try cooking classes or wine making groups or art appreciation or ballroom dancing - there are so many activities that you can do together that will help you meet non JWs, and help her realize that non JWs can be pretty classy people, without any of the stupid hangups about a person's Spirituality™ (Field Service Report™), where you can be treated with dignity and respect. This is the kind of thing that can be really eye-opening for your wife, to see "normal" people who are in reality just like her, with similar interests, who are decent human beings, regardless of their religious backgrounds.

Being worried about Armageddon™ is a realistic fear for a JW - but it's an irrational fear from the standpoint of reality.

Ask her "How many decisions have you put on hold because you thought Armageddon™ was Right Around The Corner™?"

At some point in my journey out of the JWs I started realizing that life is meant to be lived. If she truly believes that life is a gift from God, how disrespectful is it of that gift to not use it to its full potential? If someone is born with a talent - say she has an artistic flair and never developed it because she was waiting for the New System™ - what if she never used that gift, that talent? Isn't that the same as the person in Jesus' parable who buried the talent, not even investing it so it could earn interest? What did Jesus say was the Master's reaction to the slave who squandered his talent that way? Knowing the Master's displeasure with that particular slave, what would the Master's reaction be to anyone who encouraged the slave to squander their talent, the way the WTS does with JWs - getting them to put their lives "on hold" to do meaningless activity whose only purpose is to benefit the WTS? That realization hit me like a ton of bricks. That was a huge moment of the shackles coming off my thought processes, and the WTS was no longer going to enslave me for its own benefit, and to my detriment.

skeeter1

OPen ended questions, as much as possible. Get her to start to think.

Ding

There are a lot of good ideas here.

Pick what you think will work best with your wife.

Keep as many of these options open as possible.

If she gets really defensive of the WT, back off from that approach.

You don't want to be attacking the WT directly if all she's going to do is defend them.

The more she can come to her own conclusions, the better.

GrandmaJones

"The biggest worry of the GB isn't apostate voices, it's you listening to your own voice. Ultimately, what she sees, and what she is willing to admit to herself, is the key to her own exit." ATJeff has it right I think.

I began and ended the road to apostacy in our own publications. The organization condemns itself if you slow down enough to think about it.

Another poster said (I don't remember who, it was on another thread) that if Charles Taze Russell were resurrected today, he'd be disfellowshipped for apostacy in fifteen minutes. True. So you wonder, how can this be God's channel of communication?

PrimateDave

Get some really old Watchtower literature and start reading it for "family study night."

Open mind

You mentioned that her 3 best friends are "worldly" and that the "Jehovah's gonna kill em @ Armageddon" approach didn't work.

Why didn't it? What was her response?

Does she really think a God of love is going to kill her best friends because they don't join the JWs?

If you agree with the following world view you might want to see what she thinks of it:

***************************

You should live your life and try to make the world a better place for your being in it, whether or not you believe in god. If there is no god, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent god, he will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in him.

***************************

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist%27s_Wager

Use lots of patience and love with her.

Even if your name is Richard..........

.....don't be a dick.

om

NEED HELP ASAP

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