by Red Piller 443 Replies latest jw friends
Tough to trust an outfit that can't define the word generation. If they're so right in god's eyes, why do they keep mucking things up?
A generation comes, a generation goes...what's it all mean - who the hell knows!
As far as being spiritual guides, the GB should be wearing dark glasses and carrying white canes.
Governing Body of Jehovah Witnesses
Hello DJeggnogg,
I'm still waiting' on your response about the generation according to the reasoning book
DJeggnog,
I want you you answer leo.
A friend sent me a copy of the '95 Watchtower when it hit the mail in '95. It gave me chill bumps. When it became apparent that it was a non event among JWs, I got a clearer picture of the rank and file and it is a source of dissapointment for me. When I was a witness and an enforcer elder that had to apply the current WT teachings, new light, etc. I took the WT very seriously and read and re-read every twitch in the "rule book". They played fast and loose with their interpretations of grounds for divorce, sexual behaviour, etc. in the mid to late '70's and I dealt with it on judicial committees with flesh and blood people.
The JWs who let the 1914 doctrine change just wash over them are drones and deserve to be led around by the nose ring they have accepted. Fools.
the only significant change here between the viewpoint of Jehovah's Witnesses back in 1952 Question from Readers [w52 9/1, pp. 542, 543] and the viewpoint of Jehovah's Witnesses today [w10 4/15, p. 10, ¶14] is that we have come to realize in 2010 that the "generation" to which Jesus referred at Matthew 24:34 referred to the period of time that spanned the length of the sign of Christ's presence, which generation began in 1914 and will eventually come to an end, during which generation the lives of Jesus' anointed brothers as a group overlap.
"WE"
I would like everyone to take notice of djeggnogg's use of that personal pronoun... He takes away ANY personal responsibility to his OWN belief and shifts it onto the Fathful Slave. When he stands before God, he will have to say "We believed" this or that. There is no personal responsibility. When/If I stand before God, I will have to say "I was wrong because I believed" this or that. I will be judged based on that. Too bad for you djeggnogg...
Brodan,
Why do you think the Borg Collective analogy is so appropriate?
Djeggnog is 5,675,549 of 7,000,000.
The sad thing is djeggnog is nothing to the organisation that he defends. He has nothing except a false hope that one day after he has died he will have a pet lion in a paradise earth, which unfortunately is all lies.
Another wasted life *sigh*.
Hey DJeggnogg,
I'm glad to see that your on board, get yourself on over here and talk to us
I've been waitin' on you.
@wasblind:
In the October 1, 2010 watchtower on page 31, the WTS claims to be empowered by Holy Spirit.
No, such a statement isn't made on page 31 or on any page within the Watchtower you mention, the one dated October 1, 2010; this is evident that this conclusion would be your take, for the article "Speaking in Tongues-Is it from God?" states under the subheading "Who Give Evidence of Having Holy Spirit?" the following:
"So those who truly have God’s spirit—and hence God’s backing—would show genuine love for one another. In addition, the third aspect of the spirit’s fruitage is peace. Thus, those people
who today have holy spirit would be committed to peace, earnestly seeking to rise above bigotry, racism, and violence."
It then asks the question:
"What do you think? With what group of people do you find evidence of holy spirit today? Who are manifesting the spirit’s fruitage, particularly love and peace, to the extent that they suffer at the hands of governments because of their refusal to bear arms worldwide? (Isaiah 2:4) Who are endeavoring to avoid the works of the flesh, such as fornication, even removing unrepentant practicers of such conduct from their midst? (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) Who are preaching in all the
earth the good news that God’s Kingdom is the only hope for humanity?—Matthew 24:14."
The article then concludes on this note:
"The publishers of this journal do not hesitate to say that Jehovah's Witnesses fit the Bible's description of the people having holy spirit.Why not become better acquainted with them and decide for yourself whether they truly have God’s backing?"
You said that in this issue of the Watchtower (from which I just quoted) that "the WTS claims to be empowered by Holy Spirit," which this article clearly does not do, but, instead, asks that you decide for yourself whether Jehovah's Witnesses is that group of people manifesting the fruitage of love and peace toward others, refusing to kill their neighbor, avoiding the works of the flesh nor allowing such works, that can lead to broken homes, abhorrent diseases and even death, to be practiced among themselves, while preaching God's Kingdom as the only hope for mankind. producing the truly have God's backing.
Concerning the Generation teaching on page 97 and also on page 200 In the reasoning book, it is written that the generation that was alive in 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world.... With this recent change, that promise has been taken from one generation and given to the generation that overlaps.
What "promise" do you mean? No promise was made to anyone, but in 1985 when the book, "Reasoning From the Scriptures" was released, and also when this book was later revised in 1989, Jehovah's Witnesses did not understand at that time that Jesus' reference to "this generation" at Matthew 24:34 referred (1) to his anointed brothers that were alive in 1914 and (2) would include those of his anointed brothers living contemporaneous with the period of the sign of Jesus' presence until the great tribulation and the conclusion of the system of things, whose lives would overlap the lives of some of those of his brothers that were alive in 1914.
I also agree with Gary, when they use the word EVIDENTLY it shows that they are guessing when they come up with new light.
In the English language, the word "evidently" means "clearly apparent" or "unmistakably." For example: "I heard the guy say to someone on the telephone that her contractions were occurring at roughly 45-60 seconds apart, so EVIDENTLY he was talking about someone that was in labor." Notice that "evidently" as used in this example isn't so much a guess as it is used in describing something that is clearly apparent. Anyone that either says and repeats what @Gary1914 has said here regarding the way in which Jehovah's Witnesses use the word "evidently" would be someone that is ignorant of the fact that words serve a purpose in every language, and that any word can have one or more meanings. For you to be repeating what @Gary1914 said in his post makes you come off as being just as ignorant as he is as to the meaning of this word. Perhaps you would benefit were you to get a dictionary or take a remedial course in the English comprehension.
If there is anything in that book I may have missed maybe you can point it out[.] I have an [open] mind.
If you cannot accept the fact that what you read in a publication published in 1985 or 1989 cannot possibly contain what you may be able to read in a later publication published in 2010, since the understanding of Jehovah's Witnesses of the scriptures progressively increases over time, so that it is totally unreasonable to expect Jehovah's Witnesses to publish something we can to appreciate 2010 in any publication released prior to 2010. If you truly have an open mind, then you will take this point open-mindedly, and stop being unreasonable.
@Leolaia:
djeggnog.....The thing about Exodus 1:6 is that it states that that particular generation did come to an end of its own accord. The way the 1914 generation is defined now, it is indefinite; it could technically go on forever.
No, @Leolaia; I understand that this is what you believe, but one thing has nothing to do with the other. As I indicated in my previous post, at Exodus 1:6, Joseph's generation is described there as including his contemporaries, so this 110-year period -- the Joseph generation -- had a beginning and an ending; it began with Joseph's birth and ended with his death, and those that were alive during "the Joseph generation" were contemporaries of Joseph. Similarly, the period of the 1914 generation -- the generation of the sign -- has a beginning and an ending; it began in the year 1914 and ended at the conclusion of the system of things, and those of Jesus' anointed brothers that live during "this generation" are contemporaries of the sign.
The only way the generation could come to an end is if Armageddon comes; it cannot end of its own accord. That is because "the sign that became evident in 1914" is something the Society regards as ongoing and will continue to go on until Armageddon.
Correct.
It is purportedly as much in evidence [now as] it was in 1914. Compare also with the generation that must pass away before the Israelites entered the Promised Land (Numbers 32:13). That too is a generation with a definite end, and a cohort that was comprised of people of various ages who were alive at the time of the exodus and early wanderings (who "did evil" in God's sight). That generation lasted no more than 40 years, for the wilderness wanderings were no more than 40 years. That's how long it took for them to die off. Yet people like Joshua were alive at the same time as "that generation"; his life overlapped with that of Moses. But that doesn't make him part of "that generation" merely because Moses's life overlapped with his....
I understand the point you're making here, but you lost me. None of what you say here impinges upon the point I was making about "the Joseph generation," since, at Exodus 1:6, what is being described in this verse is a period of time greater than a generation of 40 years or even one of 20 or 23 years.
For example, the Bible indicates, at Genesis 2:17, how Jehovah told Adam that he would die "in the day" that he disobediently ate from the tree of knowledge of good and bad, and yet we know from reading 2 Peter 3:8 that the word "day" used in this verse didn't mean 24 hours, for "one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years," and we know from reading Genesis 5:5 that Adam died at the age of 930. In contrast, at Genesis 2:4, it is clear that the same words -- "in the day" -- doesn't mean either 24 hours, nor 1,000 years, but refers to a period of time greater than just 1,000 years in view of the fact that the apostle Paul stated at Hebrews 4:8-11, that "if Joshua had led [the people of God] into a place of rest, God would not afterward have spoken of another day," and, therefore Paul, who writes these words in 61 AD, some 4,086 after Adam's creation, is clearly urging Christians to "do [their] utmost to enter into [God's] rest."
Therefore, we who are now alive during Jesus' presence in 2010, some 1,950 years after Paul penned his words at Hebrews 4:8-11, know by our adding the 1,000 year Judgment Day to 6,036 years, that God's rest day is at least 7,000 years in length, and these 36 years represents the unknown period of time between Adam's creation and Eve's creation, after which the sixth day would have ended and God's rest day would have begun. (Gratefully, folks are still able to enter into God's rest.)
The Joseph analogy completely breaks down with the Watchtower chronology....
You lost me here since none of these things you mentioned have a thing to do with the Joseph generation, which generation, as I stated above, had both a beginning and an ending.
@djeggnog
Hi djeggnog,
You wrote:
"In the English language, the word "evidently" means "clearly apparent" or "unmistakably." For example: "I heard the guy say to someone on the telephone that her contractions were occurring at roughly 45-60 seconds apart, so EVIDENTLY he was talking about someone that was in labor." Notice that "evidently" as used in this example isn't so much a guess as it is used in describing something that is clearly apparent. Anyone that either says and repeats what @Gary1914 has said here regarding the way in which Jehovah's Witnesses use the word "evidently" would be someone that is ignorant of the fact that words serve a purpose in every language, and that any word can have one or more meanings. For you to be repeating what @Gary1914 said in his post makes you come off as being just as ignorant as he is as to the meaning of this word. Perhaps you would benefit were you to get a dictionary or take a remedial course in the English comprehension."
I don't mind being called ignorant, really I don't. But the fact remains that the Watchtower uses words like EVIDENTLY just before they toss the Witnesses a new teaching or doctrine that is a guess, at best. Even the example you used "he was evidently talking to someone that was in labor", is really just a guess. There is no certainly to whom he was talking to. In fact, I think that the last time the Watchtower defined "generation" it was "clearly apparent" and "EVIDENTLY" ........ They avoid using terms that show that their statement is irrefutably true. Please also note that the English language means little to the Watchtower organization. They redefine words on a whim. For example, "GENERATION".
I know you want to believe desperately in your faith. That's okay. But you really must look at it with open eyes so that you can see the pitfalls.
Are you kidding me? The Governing Body does claim in the October 1st Watchtower that it is the only religion to have God's Holy Spirit. The invitation is for non-witnesses to see for themselves if this is true. "The publishers of this journal do not hesitate to say that Jehovah's Witnesses fit the Bible's description of the people having holy spirit.Why not become better acquainted with them and decide for yourself whether they truly have God’s backing?"
"Jehovah's Witnesses is that group of people manifesting the fruitage of love and peace toward others, refusing to kill their neighbor, avoiding the works of the flesh nor allowing such works, that can lead to broken homes, abhorrent diseases and even death, to be practiced among themselves, while preaching God's Kingdom as the only hope for mankind?" Ahh, if that were only true. For all their hooplah, Jehovah's Witnesses experience the same sorts of debauchery in their "Holy Spirit driven" congregations as is in other religions. Don't get me started on broken homes and parents who force their kids to leave just because they don't wan to be witnesses.
It is EVIDENT (you might be copying and pasting, I don't really know) that you have done a lot of research on the overlapping generation doctrine. Good for you. If it makes sense to you and you want to believe it, that's okay. Just a suggestion, please do not spend too much time defending this ridiculous doctrine because in a year or two you will have to defend their new doctrine.
