DISCUSSION re Lifton's Mind Control Techniques

by Lady Lee 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Snoozy

  I'm confused. Lady Lee do you actually have your own copy of the complete interview?

  I have a copy/recorder that can make copies from one VHS tape to the other..

  I see they now have a machine that can make copies from VHS to a DVD..I just may invest in one of those but they are running around $200. right now...bummer!

  Snoozy..

  I also wanted to add that we all know that Mind control does exist..and who said what or who shot John isn't all that important, but knowing when someone is using it on us or our loved ones is.

  I for one appreciate any info on it no matter who printed it first.
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  bobld

  All I can say is that the wtbs/faithful slave is a mind controlling freak.They are dishonest in their d-d ministry.They are big bullys once you are in their claws(org.).Coming my 2nd part of previous post bullying.Also Lady Lee is right on the money.

  B
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  Lady Lee

  dj I hadn't even heard of Randy Watters when I wrote the paper that my interview was based on. I took my points directly from Lifton's book not Hassan's.

  All research is based on the work of research that has been done by others. Otherwise you are reinventing the wheel every time - a true waste of time and resources. When Lifton made his comparisons in Chapter 22 of his book he meant for them to be applied to other kinds of groups - not just religions.

  I am sitting here with Lifton's book under my nose. The quotes I made are not from Randy's ook. I don't have Randy's book. I have Lifton's book and I can assure you that what I quoted comes directly from Lifton's book.

  I do appreciate the work Randy and many many others have done on the issues of mind control. I have researched the issue very well. Have you? I mean really research it yourself. Not just read what the WTS tell you. There is a very real differtnece and it is extremely important because in that part about Information Control - that is what the WTS uses to give you half-truths and outright lies about whatever they think you should know.

  There is real danger in getting all your information from one source. It is too easily corrupted.

  It was interesting to watch how easily you brushed away some of the points as if they don't count. Because they do you know?

  NOW as to the interview. You want me to get a stolen copy of the interview and give it to you so you don't have to pay for it. Hmmm If I don't want to buy the digital copy, because I have the VHS tape, why on earth would I ask anyone for a pirated copy? To give to you? To me it isn't that important what you think regarding the factt hat I left my husband because of his sexual abuse of me, that it drove me almost to suicide and that after 25 years he finally understands that what he did was wrong. YOU seem to be th eonly one who doesn't get that.

  AND as for yoru words to Randy

  I'm the "clueless" one, the ignorant one here, but it is you that don't seem to have your own words. These are my own words, but I'm wondering whether these words I'm reading here in your post yours? So let me ask you this before I forget: Are these your words I'm now hearing or are they someone else's words you've pasted into this post so that I'm really speaking to someone else that isn't here to defend their original comments that you're here only embellishing? Send the person you're representing to this forum (if there is such a person!) so that this "coward" might converse with that person. I don't want to talk to someone that might just be this person's "proxy." Otherwise, to use your words (I'm assuming that these were your words), what's the point?

  Is there anyone else here you would like to insult? We all know Randy here. We don't know you.
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  Lady Lee

  Snoozy

  I'm confused. Lady Lee do you actually have your own copy of the complete interview?

  Yes Shortly after the interview was done the producer sent me a VHS copy for my library. You can buy a digital copy from:

  http://exjwvideos.spiritualtechnologies.ca/

  Mouthy/Grace Gough is also there
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  Curtains

  thanks Lady Lee re how to get randy's book

  djeggnog

  did you read the link I posted. Lifton himself rebuts all your arguments against me and the arguments you are using above. It also shows that your view of plagiarism is incorrect. Now you admit that you are sharing your own opinion. All I can say is that you have an incorrect opinion and your are simply out to condemn people here. Now where have we heard that before? The problem with Jehovahs witnessess is that they condemn loudly and vociferously. By this means they expect to and succeed in swaying people. Well this does not work here djeggnogg. The people here are kind and patient and will go over the incorrect points you are trying to pass off as something to pay attention to.

  Also if you read the link I provided you will see that Lifton says

  "I have been especially pleased by the extent too which this earlier volume on thought reform has remained central to literature on cults and totalism in general."

  Of course Randy Watters is using Lifton's thoughts and ideas but his genius lies in the fact that he is expertly applying them to Jehovahs witnesses. In this respect he is an expert and his book is important for us who want to see the connections made and are trying to exit form this cult.
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  Lady Lee

  Curtains I guess you missed the link to Randy's book

  You can find the book here http://www.freeminds-store.com/books/understanding-mind-control-among-jehovah-s-witnesses.html

  curtains

  In this respect he is an expert and his book is important for us who want to see the connections made and are trying to exit form this cult.

  And that is the problem. You have to be willing to see what is in front of you. I have given this illustration a few times but it fits here. I used to play an online game and had been playing it for months when I suddenly realized every time I made matches the scores were popping up on top of the screen over the things I had to match. They were right there in front of me and I ignored them as being unimportant. JWs have that same one-mindedness. They can't see what is right in front of them unless something happens that opens their eyes or minds and allows them to see it. It is a trick of the mind and the WTS has conditioned JWs not to see it even when pointed out to them.

  THAT is the power of mind control
• 

  Dogpatch

  Actually Lifton's study was not the real focus of the book so much as practical issues I learned from Hassan's books, which I felt Combatting Cult Mind Control needed to be applied to the Witnesses specifically, or they wouldn't see the connection. I borrowed much more from Steve than Lifton's stuff. It was a result of reviewing several exit-counselings we did on JWs together. He heartily encouraged me to write it from our notes.

  It's not some scholarly 50-cent-word-thing like my tome on hell. It's simple things a ninth grader could grasp.

  It's virtually useless to discuss theology in exit-counseling (until towards the end); people don't get into cults because of doctrine. I don't like charts and numbered points anyway; people rarely remember things that way IMHO.

  It's all mostly primal; animal... not intellectual... this getting people out. If you approach it from an intellectual standpoint with them, it turns into a game of wit instead of friendship, and that just hardens them.

  Randy

  Dogpatch
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  Lady Lee

  I otally agree Randy. Debates won't do it. Mostly becausae they can't see it.

  I have found that connecting to the real person on the emotional level will keep them out of the cult personality long enough to make a bit of headway but then there is still a lot of work to do.

  Which reminds me I have to email an ex-husband
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  Curtains

  primal; animal not intellectual - ouch, love it - thanks - I'm already seeing how this would work. Jehovahs witnesses do quash the animal side and I must say I've have been concentrating on intellectual angles.

  My computer is not safe so let me see which friend of a friend I can get to download it for me.

  Now where has that great fighter djeggnog (who is devoid of animal instincts) gone?
• 

  bohm

  "You are also a coward hiding behind an icon - let's hear a little about you. Who are you? What experience have you had? Are you a JW? Or are you afraid that if you really expose your ignorance YOU will be vulnerable. Otherwise you have no case.

  I'm the "clueless" one, the ignorant one here, but it is you that don't seem to have your own words. These are my own words, but I'm wondering whether these words I'm reading here in your post yours? So let me ask you this before I forget: Are these your words I'm now hearing or are they someone else's words you've pasted into this post so that I'm really speaking to someone else that isn't here to defend their original comments that you're here only embellishing? Send the person you're representing to this forum (if there is such a person!) so that this "coward" might converse with that person. I don't want to talk to someone that might just be this person's "proxy." Otherwise, to use your words (I'm assuming that these were your words), what's the point?"

  Djeggnog, you cant answer the question. you dont want to admit you cant answer the question. So you make up a totally illogical assertion, that "Randy Watters" is somehow a puppet of someone else, an accusation you back up with absolutely no evidence and wrap in a tirade that leave the reader with the impression it may have been cut short by droll short-circuting your keyboard.

  Satisfied that this display of insanity somehow contain a valid point, you begin to command Randy to tell his puppeteer to: "Send the person you're representing to this forum", but fully aware you are just making it all up you add: "(if there is such a person!)". Oh really. If he is just someones puppet (a damn good puppet identity given how public Randy is!), he would ofcourse break down and confess when the great Djeggnog command him to confess! (This is, by the way, just one more example of your own delusions of grandour and importence).

  But that is clear to you ofcourse -- you hope that Randy will deny he is someones puppet, and you want to ask him to provide "proof"; subject changed and in your own mind (and in your mind only, because the stupidity of what you are doing is transparent even to the newborns and farm animals of medium intelligence) you have somehow "answered" randys question, in a way that conceal you dont have the guts to answer him.

  meh.