by brotherdan 64 Replies latest watchtower bible
It's comforting to Christians to think that somehow Daniel wrote a detailed prophecy hundreds of years in advance, but as has been stated, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". In this case it just ain't there.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
-Sab
But there was clearly 1 person that was expected to be Messiah. You can't find the notion in either the OT or the NT that 2 messiahs were expected. Jesus was specifically asked, "Are you the Messiah?" I know that certain Jewish cults believe in 2 Messiahs, but it's not a clear teaching in the OT.
You are still reading the concept of a "messiah" into the text. The usual OT sense is that the term referred to anointed priests and kings. Here the term has reference to the priesthood (cf. the prior reference to the anointing of the Holy of Holies in v. 24, which is sacerdotal). The chapter, as well as the one preceding it, is concerned with the condition of the sanctuary and its defilement and desolation. I would recommend you simply get any major commentary of Daniel and read what it has to say on the oracle.
It's comforting to Christians to think that somehow Daniel wrote a detailed prophecy hundreds of years in advance, but as has been stated, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". In this case it just ain't there.
Agreed.
Hadit
There were about 5 other prophecies that I was going to post here, but it's gotten ridiculous. What it comes down to is that those that don't want to believe won't. It doesn't matter what I say.
We'll all find out what was true and what was not when either Christ comes, or we die. And then we'll live with the consequences (or lack thereof) of our actions.
There were about 5 other prophecies that I was going to post here, but it's gotten ridiculous. What it comes down to is that those that don't want to believe won't. It doesn't matter what I say.
Dan, I disagree. I am very much interested in hearing your prophecies.In an earlier thread you wrote:
Hindus are wrong. JWs are wrong. Atheists are wrong. Christians are right. In an open discussion this can be proved.
This is YOUR thread to prove it. What it comes down to is that you made a claim. I am VERY interested in seeing the evidence. Do you have evidence and proof or not?
What it comes down to is that those that don't want to believe won't.
But, can a person force himself to believe things which he has previously proven to himself to be false?
What it comes down to is that those that don't want to believe won't. It doesn't matter what I say.
Read again, people here are providing you with information, then you can believe what you want. OR using your own statement. Even with information those who want to Believe, WILL. Regardless of the information.
How is it gotten ridiculous? I have read all the post and everyone here has been respectul you are the person calling Leo a "stretcher of facts", so let me ask you... where do you get your interpretation? the WT? which sources? what commentaries? Common you are making the claims, present your evidence.
FACT vs OPINION... aren't you tired of OPINION by now?
We'll all find out what was true and what was not when either Christ comes, or we die
Stop throwing a tantrum and man up. You started this thread now present your evidence. You statement above assumes you are right and that it will be proved soon or later... Do you realize that is the stand of JWs? Are you still with the JW mentality? You know what is happening? you are experience the result of Cognitive Dissonance, you are justifying what you know because you want to believe.
We DONT, we are willing to see evidence and we will change our minds when the evidence surfaces. Thats why we are where we are.
And then we'll live with the consequences (or lack thereof) of our actions.
oooooh thats scary. But what if you are wrong, then you will spend your time believing a fantasy. But if that makes you happy then more power to you. Some people collect stamps, some people climb mountains, some believe in Gods, if that gives them fulfillment its awesome. But if you start a thread making a statement and then you cant back it up, well your hobby is gonna be frustrating. Specially here because a lot of people have a lot of factual information. THIS AINT the KINGDOM HALL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Daniel
I am sure you have read it. At the bottom it has dozens of references. I know that it gives you comfort to believe that DANIEL did write that book and that he did foretell the future.
Ah Brother Dan the old, "you'll see" threat. Isn't that exactly what the WTS does when people disagree with them?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1u7MXRCJ8E&feature=player_embedded
I hope you do not take offense to my critical response. Yes, I don't believe that your preferred interpretation of the Seventy Weeks oracle is what the author had in mind at all. This is not being dismissive but rather it's an attempt to understand what the book has to say on its own terms. Daniel, in fact, is an extremely important book for understanding the development of Jewish thought. It is also the most widely (mis)interpreted. You will be amazed at the sheer magnitude of different interpretations that have been produced over the millennia with respect to this oracle. Your interpretation draws on some of these. Critical scholarship however has shown that the christological interpretation impedes rather than advances an accurate understanding of the authorial purpose and intent. A contextual reading that is guided by the immediate literary context (specifically ch. 8 and ch. 10-11) and the cited intertexts (Leviticus and Jeremiah), and especially in light of the historical context (as related in 1-2 Maccabees and Josephus) leads to a understanding of the text that respects the parallels to the other visions and history and avoids the contrivances and problems that more eisegetical readings have produced. We will never know exactly what the author had in mind (and most scholars disagree over various details) but the evidence imo is quite clear that the author did not intend to give a prophecy along the lines of the OP. Again, I would recommend almost any major critical commentary for a survey of these issues.
