Do you agree to disagree? (page 2)

Markfromcali

CJ: Well let me put it this way, who is going against it? And what is the it, something or someone else? This perspective sets up you and evolution as an unconscious process as oppositional forces, but clearly that is also you if you acknowledge you have that kind of tendency, right? So I'll go with the part of being aware of it, but by going against it you are essentially going against yourself. You can be aware of it and simply distinguish between a part that is interested in reason and the instinctual part that wants to justify irrationally. Depending on what's going on internally "against" may just be a matter of semantics, but people do get into that whole kind of inner conflict, which just means you're arguing with yourself instead of someone else.

On a more practical note, it's important to be aware of the emotional piece. Disagreeing does not have to mean going against anything, if you were having a conversation with a little kid who obviously doesn't know better you're not "against" that kid in some oppositional way, and our instinctual tendency to justify things to preserve a sense of self can be viewed in a similar way.

sir82

Wow, Pascal's wager.

How fragile is someone's faith if it can't stand up to scrutiny from anonymous strangers on an internet message board?

I can't speak for others, but I have no desire to "destroy the faith" of anyone. However, I reserve the right to question it and point out logical inconsistencies or conflicts with known facts, and ask for explanations of how one's faith endures despite those obstacles.

Isn't there a scripture about "always being ready to make a defense for the belief within you"? Somehow throwing up your hands and saying "I quit" doesn't seem to be what the writer had in mind.

sabastious

But thanks for nothing in your attempts to destroy the faith of other people (inluding mine).

I have not seen too many people trying to destroy your faith. Challenge yes, but destroy no.

Staunch opposition to an ideal can be tough to swallow.

I remember not very long ago arguing with someone about muslims in America. I was convinced that all muslims condone violent acts towards non muslims. I had never even picked up a Koran or even spoke with any muslim. My reasoning was that I refused to believe that so many people think that muslims are violent were lying.

The fact is, most of them were NOT lying. They were just spreading false information about a group of people, and so was I.

I had to look into my argument deeply to see the liberties my agrument was taking.

-Sab

Mad Sweeney

<book pimping mode> Great book on belief and justification: "Mistakes Were Made, But Not By Me" written by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson. There is a great interview with Carol Travis on the "For Good Reason" website. You can listen online or download it:

http://www.forgoodreason.org/carol_tavris_mistakes_were_made

Listen to the podcast/radio show. Read the book. Take a psychology class. You'll never "believe" anything in the same way again.

</book pimping mode>

Now as for the insults and name-calling toward "God" I don't get the impression that the people who insult God actually even believe in Him. They are insulting what they see as a man-made fictional character and and the man-made flaws that go along with such a character. There isn't a god represented by a human religious system who seems worthy of respect, let alone reverence and worship; they are ALL DEEPLY FLAWED like the humans who invent the descriptions of them. This goes for Allah, Jehovah, Odin, Satan, or any other god you want to throw out here for discussion.

The true God, once written or spoken about by humans, is instantly misrepresented. Yet, these misrepresentations of God are all we are able to discuss because we only tend to know our own versions of God. To tweak a phrase from the great philosopher Lao Tzu: the god that can be spoken of is not the true god.

So when someone insults "Joe Hoover" or "Jerk Hovah" are they insulting God? I don't think so.

Dan, you have a PM. There are other message boards that are less "wild west" style than this one.

cyberjesus

Mad Sweeney I heard the interview, is great.

Mark: I ll get back to you

BD: Oh my friend, patience patience. Think think think.... dont go drinking 7 beers (jk). But anyway I came here a believer. I was afraid of atheists.. Haha I was even afraid of AWAKENINGILEAD.

But I let people attack my faith....and boo hooo hooo. My faith got destroyed... why Because it was based on beliefs. I didnt agree on the disagreement. I agree on agree and when some people who disagreed with me made points that were sooo good, it made me agree with their points. If I had left right when I felt attacked then I would probably be at the kingdom hall with others who wouldnt attack my faith.

DagothUr

I agree there must be some sort of creature or thing who created the Universe...But it's not Jay Hoover, for sure.

SweetBabyCheezits

I spent my life believing in morals and values that God gave me. I will not be sorry for following those. If you love sin and want to practice what you want, that is fine by me. But I'mnot happy in sin.

Dan, your wife called you a dirty apostate. Do you feel that's a justified accusation? No. Then why would you do something similar here with atheists?