Is it wrong of me to think of the GB, the Writing Department, Bethelites, Pioneers, as moochers, and leeching bloodsuckers?

by miseryloveselders 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • Soldier77
    Soldier77

    no, it's not wrong to think that. The 'truth' hurts sometimes, but nevertheless, it's the truth of the matter.

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    LITS!!! That is why the LORD called you out of there.You were working from the Heart.
    HE knows your heart.He said "OUT YOU COME LITS!!!!& VOILA!!!! here you are!
    I think they are all aware( the lazy ones) of what they are doing, & feel guilty,
    imagine KNOWING! that they are teaching by" WORKS you are saved "& they "aint:
    working...Guilt destroys,That is why so many are boozers to cover the guilt

  • Gayle
    Gayle

    I think most Bethelites, leave Bethel and eventually leave the organization. This would be of the newer Bethelites, the younger ones. These are ones raised by devout parents, got caught up in being "captives of the concept." Bethel is an eye-opener for many. Most leave quietly.

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    I think most Bethelites, leave Bethel and eventually leave the organization. This would be of the newer Bethelites, the younger ones. These are ones raised by devout parents, got caught up in being "captives of the concept." Bethel is an eye-opener for many. Most leave quietly.

    That is an interesting observation - we do seem to have a lot of ex-bethelites here on JWN for some reason.

    Moochers? I reserve that classification for lifetime bethel heavies, circuit & district overseers, and a few pioneers who beg for handouts from working rank & file. Many ordinary pioneers (especially special pioneers) are, of course, really in that position to try to gain circuit overseer work, but most of them I knew did occasionally work part time. I don't think Bethel newbies are necessarily there to be moochers - they were probably deceived about what Bethel is really like and thought they were going to be doing God's work. About 1 to 2 years is usually enough to make cynics out of them.

  • life is to short
    life is to short

    I don't think Bethel newbies are necessarily there to be moochers - they were probably deceived about what Bethel is really like and thought they were going to be doing God's work. About 1 to 2 years is usually enough to make cynics out of them.

    james_wood you are spot on when you wrote that. My first month at Bethel I spent crying my eyes out not believing how mean and bitting my overseer's and some of the older Bethelits were. I truly believed it was the truth and that being at Bethel was the best gift I could have ever received in my life. I still can feel the wonderful feeling I had that I was in the place that the true God had his headquarters. I thought now if I do everything right and try to please everyone and crawl on my knees to them I will finally find peace in my life.

    It never happened no matter how hard I tried to work and what I did, it was never good enough. I was a sister and they put me in construction, I had never ran a table saw, router, arm saw. I was a waitress when I pioneered, I never lifted heaving things expect a buss tubs full of dishes, now at Bethel I was expected to lift 90 pounds over my head. It was all so overwhelming and the whole time I was being yelled at for not being able to do the work.

    I was told I was lazy no good. I saw so much stuff, married couples splitting up, stealing, lying, fighting, meanness, unkindness all with in the first three months of being there.

    I was in a huge depression and lost tons of weight all at Bethel not being able to explain to myself what I was seeing, because I still was trying to believe it was the true religion.

    That is why ones leave the religion when they leave Bethel. I tried so hard to explain it away to myself and lie to myself, so it took me a few more years after leaving to finally wake up.

    LITS

  • miseryloveselders
    miseryloveselders

    Alright, I'm awake now, and I'm glad to see the comments you posted. In consideration of what some of you posted, I have to backtrack on some of my initial thoughts. Thats what I love about this board. Many pioneers do bust their tails. It's gotta be rough getting those hours, and making a living supporting yourself too. Those in Bethel too, you guys and gals bust your tails also. I apologize for lumping you in with whom I really meant are a bunch of lazy, bloodsucking, mooching bums.

    I'll level with you, and share just a hint of what I do for a leaving. I work in health care, and I deal with all segments of the human race. I remember when I was first hired here several years ago, and being present for orientation. One of the orientation speakers mentioned that we have to be caring, and be genuinely empathetic towards those on Medical Assistance. At the time I didn't really understand where she was coming from. After working here a few years and getting acclimated with those on MA, it can make you bitter. You start to lose touch with reality, and start putting people in categories, often unfairly. I've grown up around drug dealers, addicts, and bums, and with the exception of the dealers, I never developed any relationships with addicts and bums. I always looked down on them as weak and pathetic. I was younger then, and I don't hold those same attitudes towards them today. I view the dealers nowadays as more poisonous than their customers. However, people have problems, and life can be complex as evident by the experiences posted on this board. Plus, who am I to judge anyone? As many times as I've messed up in life, and will continue to mess up, I have no business judging anybody. The reason I mentioned all of that was because every now and then under duress, I get those overly negative thoughts and feelings towards those on medical assistance or welfare. Many of them truly need assistance, but there's also a significant portion of them who are abusing the system, and are simply lazy and lack discipline. Many of them have been partying since high school and college, and they wish to continue those poor habits while being funded by the state to support them financially. What's ironic, and humorous to me is, those moochers remind me of many heavyweights within this organization. Let me explain.

    When I look at a Circuit Overseer, a District Overseer, a Branch Overseer, a Governing Body member, I don't see men taking the lead. I see men getting financial support for giving talks, going out in field service, and in some cases.......going out of their way to make the common JW's life miserable. I don't lump all those brothers under the tyrannical umbrella, but enough of them have developed reputations stenched with arrogance, unreasonableness, and aloofness. When I work 40-60 hours a week to support myself, and I still keep up with the meetings, field service, personal study, helping out people in the congregation, etc., I'm not real fond when some old moocher comes to the congregation telling me and the rest of the congregation what we need to work on. The average elder hates the CO visit. Prior to being appointed, I hated the CO visit because of the extra meeting throughout the week. Not to mention I really don't see the CO as doing anything thats particulary encouraging. Sure, some of them are good speakers, but mostly what they speak about is the need to continue going out in field service. I wasn't born yesterday, nor later that evening, and it goes without saying that field service is a tremendous waste of time. There's is no growth resulting from the door to door ministry, telephone witnessing, or any of that other nonsense they spew from the platform. And this is what they, the WTS wants me to support financially? These guys and their wives get new cars, often stay in nice homes, hotels, nice apartments, eat at the best restaurants. Where does that all come from? You now the answer. Check out 2 Thess 3:6-9 when you get a chance by the way. Paul didn't ask for anything. The COs don't ask for anything either. The COBOE just reads a letter after the CO leaves showing the CO's expenses and the congregation A-Oks paying for it.

    The Governing Body members, well that's another monster unto itself. Lately I view them with utter contempt. They disgust me. Several old men who sit up in a building somewhere in NY living in nice apartments, making a living off of the rest of us. In return for our financial support, these men occasionally go out and give talks, give the ok as to whats printed in their literature much of which isn't even read by the common JW, and more times than not discarded by the general public after the JW leaves their front porch. These men have people that clean their apartments right? Or am I wrong about that? These men and their wives travel the world giving talks, eating at 5 Star resturaunts, rubbing elbows with JWs who are financially well off. Then they have the nerve to criticize anyone who decides to pursue higher education? Most people who pursue higher education don't have aspiration of having the general luxuries that GB members have. Most just want to make a living for themselves. You know a Governing Body member lives a lifestyle better than most college graduates. To think, you can get paid to stand on a stage and speak for 45 minutes a few times a month, and give the verbal ok to print an article that a brother in the writing department researched and wrote, and in return you're given free housing, a car, health insurance, food, etc., its all taken care of for you? Jesus didn't have a place to lay his head. Peter's mother in law stayed with him. The disciples were ordinary men, common types.

    There's more , but I'm currently making a living and don't have time get into anymore specifics. It's just that when I think of Jesus' life on earth, and the 1st Century Christians, I find it hard to imagine them having the same expectations of their brethren that the heavyweights in this organization expect of their lower ranked brethren. Especially considering the lifestyle that the heavyweights have grown accustomed to. They're moochers in my opinion.

    Another thing, J.R. Brown, according to an older thread, he pushes a Jaguar right? Organized Religion isn't that far different from the dope game when you think about it.

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    I've grown up around drug dealers, addicts, and bums, and with the exception of the dealers, I never developed any relationships with addicts and bums. I always looked down on them as weak and pathetic. I was younger then, and I don't hold those same attitudes towards them today. I view the dealers nowadays as more poisonous than their customers.

    Great post, MLE, and the above is an excellent analogy to the JW world: Dealers = CO, DO, bethel insiders. Addicts = rank & file, most pioneers, most Bethel newbies.

    It might be worth mentioning that there are more than one kind of CO - anyone who has been an elder and reviewed their expense reports know this. Some tried to minimize the expenses - others of them seemingly tried to do the opposite, and were notorious about it.

    And this thread would be derelict in its duty if we did not once again mention the ultimate king of the JW moochers in bold -

    J. F. Rutherford.

  • Gayle
    Gayle

    mle,,you are so right about the GB, CO, and DOs,,they are treated like royalty,,they have all the amenities of house care, meals, utilities,,medical, dental, eye care,,medical clinic care,,travel,,all maintenance,,'a no-bills life.' They have no reality of raising children or caring for aging parents. They are surrounded by loyal, unquestioning "servants." They answer to no one, not even God, as they don't have a conscience.

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    I certainly agree with you regarding the CO level and above. To james_woods point, I have seen some COs do the best they could to minimize expenses and I've also seen COs spend lots of money on weekly expenses even though they knew the average JW in that particular congo was hurting financially. Interestingly enough, the COs who were disliked by the BOE the most ended up being the ones who spent the most money. Obviously, their lack of caring the the publishers and elders showed up in both how they treated the members and how they treated the members money.

    MLE is totally right about elders hating the COs visit. Now, I just relax and laugh as I watch them walk on eggshells for a week!!

    What I think is even more ironic is that JWs claim there is no clergy/laity distinction, that everyone works and supports themselves, yet you have COs/DOs/Bethel heavies up to and including the GB who don't work at ALL.

    I can tell you from personal experience that even loyal JWs take note of this situation and have some level of resentment. Especially against COs who come twice a year, tell them what losers they are, what bad parents they are and how they're letting Jehovah down and then hop in their nice leased Buicks and drive away.

    I would love to see the WTS eliminate the CO position just to see these guys taken down a peg and have to actually work for a living.

  • cult classic
    cult classic
    When I look at a Circuit Overseer, a District Overseer, a Branch Overseer, a Governing Body member, I don't see men taking the lead. I see men getting financial support for giving talks, going out in field service,

    MLE - In many cases that is true. You can add quite a few Bethelites to that list as well. The longer they stay at Bethel the more green handshakes they get. Especially if they are popular, good speakers and can rouse emotion in the R & F.

    One of the things many longtime Bethelites are afraid of is how to support themselves in real life. As a Bethelite you are given a job, a congregation to serve in, and room and board. All of your food and cleaning is provided for you. You receive a monthly stipend for your personal needs. Any extra funds you get from other sources is yours to spend how you see fit. Therefore, lots of Bethelites have more expendable income than most working class folks. The standard of living is quite high. It's hard to duplicate that in real life.

    Overall, I'd have to check Bethelites and pioneers off of that list though. Most Bethelites that I know work not only 40+ at Bethel but have regular G-jobs as well. And pioneers generally get no help from the congregation. Most publishers feel like they should go to work more if they want a new car... lol

    Good thread.

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