The latest Watchtower position on Blood - comments welcome

by Nickolas 56 Replies latest members private

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    I almost wept when I saw PSacramento's post with the Awake! cover. And the testimonies I have read from people who watched their loved ones die, some of whom say it wouldn't have happened if the doctrine had changed earlier. The Society's hair splitting that it was technology that changed, not the doctrine, is flimsy at best. If I was a lawyer for the WTBTS I would be shitting myself.

    What are these people doing? From what I have learned over this past day and a half I have to ask myself if there be any doubt this Society is about to implode? There appears to be a small, but determined, dissident group working from within to change blood doctrine, the attitudes toward a once sacred doctrine are shifting, there's been and continues to be a pedophile scandal, there is abundant evidence that many of its youth are rebelling and can't wait to get out of the house, there's a large number of apostate Jehovah's Witness internet sites hammering people with contrarian facts, figures and historical perspectives and there are Youtube videos galore debunking their claims. There's no place to hide. The iron grip of the Society as I see it will loosen and it will become just another Christian sect, and then the smart ones will leave.

  • Mary
    Mary

    Here's another little tidbit you may want to share with the Witness about "shifting opinions". They claim that the F&DS don't shift opinions about blood? Their own words say otherwise:

    *** w61 11/1 p. 670 Questions From Readers ***

    The Bible is very clear that blood could properly be used only on the altar; otherwise it was to be poured out on the ground. (Lev. 17:11-13) The entire modern medical practice involving the use of blood is objectionable from the Christian standpoint. Therefore the taking of a blood transfusion, or, in lieu of that, the infusing of some blood fraction to sustain one's life is wrong.

    As to the use of vaccines and other substances that may in some way involve the use of blood in their preparation, it should not be concluded that the Watch Tower Society endorses these and says that the practice is right and proper. However, vaccination is a virtually unavoidable practice in many segments of modern society, and the Christian may find some comfort under the circumstances in the fact that this use is not in actuality a feeding or nourishing process, which was specifically forbidden when God said that man was not to eat blood, but it is a contamination of the human system.

    Yet they insist on viewing blood transfusions "feeding" or "nourishing" even though it's a proven fact that it's not.

    *** w61 11/1 p. 669 Questions From Readers ***

    In the case of other products, a similar procedure may be followed. If you have reason to believe that a certain product contains blood or a blood fraction, ask the one who sells it. If he does not know, write to the manufacturer...... However, if the label says that certain tablets contain hemoglobin, similar checking will reveal that this is from blood; so a Christian knows, without asking, that he should avoid such a preparation.

    November 2006 Kingdom Ministry p. 5 How Do I View Blood Fractions and Medical Procedures Involving My Own Blood?

    HEMOGLOBIN-33% OF RED CELLSA protein that transports
    oxygen throughout the body
    and carbon dioxide to the ............ I accept
    lungs. Products being hemoglobin
    developed from human or or
    animal hemoglobin could be ............ I refuse
    used to treat patients with hemoglobin
    acute anemia or massive
    blood loss.

    So in 1961, you could not accept hemoglobin, but in 2006 you could. No......no 'shifting of opinion there at all.

  • blondie
    blondie

    No, since it says hemoglobin which is considered a fraction of red blood cells. But it does mean than jws can choose to use hemoglobin-based products such as Hemopure, HemAssist, Polyheme, Hemolink,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemoglobin-based_oxygen_carriers

    The problem is that blood is supposed to be poured out not stored...making the manufacture of this products impossible per the WTS.

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    No, I think it's hemoglobin developed from red blood cells that's ok, not red blood cells, Mary. Seems the extraction of a substance from an existing fundamental blood component is the loophole to the doctrine being cited.

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    I guess we were composing at the same time, blondie. You said it much better.

    Seems you're editing your comment, Mary.

  • Mary
    Mary

    Thanks Blondie and Nicholas. I actually went ad re-read it and I came to the same conclusion.....So I changed my post there to show a couple of good "shifting opinions"......

  • belbab
    belbab

    Jehovah’s Witnesses’ extreme prohibition on the transfusion of blood is a total denial of the Spirit of Christianity. Christianity is a case of giving not taking, generosity instead of greed, consideration for the needs of others rather than selfishness.

    During his day on earth, Jesus was condemned for breaking the law of the Sabbath, by healing on that day and permitting his apostles from feeding themselves in the grain fields. His reply to them was: The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbbath (Mark 2:27. For the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day. (Math 12:8) In other words the Sabbath was given to man, beast and nature as a beneficial gift instead of an unreasonable legal requirement.

    So too, is the prohibition of eating blood. It was given for the benefit of man and beast. Instead of demonstrating greed and selfishness, to the last drop of blood, man was required to show consideration and appreciation to Creation that gave him that animal and give up the blood to the ground. He was not to take or rob people of their lives and drink the blood of the vanquished as a demonstration and enhancement of his power.

    Jehovah’s Witnesses look at their refusal of giving or receiving blood as a sacrifice to Jehovah. Yet Jesus says while eating with tax collectors and sinners, ( Math 9:13): "But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance."

    It is wrong to take away by killing the lives of others. Most civilizations also consider it a wrong to take one’s own life. A few days ago on the news here, a man ran into a burning basement to save his three year old son’s life. He managed to bring him to safety, but died from his own burns. He risked his own life to continue the life of his son. Should he be denigrated for committing suicide?

    But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him? (1John 3:17) Money or this world’s goods are figuratively like life-giving blood. But when someone’s child is bleeding to death all the money in the world cannot save him. Is it not right to give some of our surplus blood which replaces it self in a few days to save the life of the bleeding one? Is that not the merciful thing to do. If someone is bleeding to death with a severed finger or hand, is it not merciful to apply a tourniquet to stay the flow of blood, or should one follow the Law of Moses and let the blood spill upon the ground. Jesus healed the woman who was considered unclean because of her twelve year blood loss.

    Jesus said at John 6:53-54, Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. John 6:53

    Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
    Many of the Jews including his followers stumbled over these words. JWs will say that these words are figurative, rightly so, but why choose a figure that is contrary to the law? It would be like saying that unless you fornicate, rob and steal, murder you will not have eternal life. A follower of the way of love and compassion will imbibe and imitate his actions while giving up of the self for the benefit of others, and thus be taking figuratively his body and blood.

    In Acts 15, the words “abstain from blood” were for the Jews: For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in thesynagogues every sabbath day. Acts 15:20,21 . Why stumble the Jews unnecessarily and selfishly when Paul says: It is] good neither toeat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Rom 14:21. Many people today, including especially doctors and caregivers, unselfishly give their lives to saving people, not sacrificing them to a strange, unmerciful god. They are stumbled and angry at the merciless stance of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    belbab

  • TD
    TD
    Would I take the cure ? You bet I would...My aversion to smoking it is totally different from the medically administered treatment.

    An example like BluesBrother gave here with tobacco is much better than trying to explain the grammar, which is only useful in written correspondence or formal debate. --Otherwise it makes people go glassy-eyed, (Especially JW's.)

    I've noticed that JW's will often go straight to page 71 of the Reasoning book and ask, "Consider a man who is told by the doctor that he must abstain from alcohol. Would he be obedient if he quit drinking alcohol but had it put directly in his veins?"

    This is a perfect opportunity to point out the grammatical error:

    "Depends. Let's say a husband and wife both go to the same doctor. The woman is told "You should abstain from alcohol throughout all three trimesters of your pregnancy. The man is told, "People like you with sensitive skin, should abstain from alcohol."

    The doctor said "Abstain from alcohol" to both the man and the woman, but was he talking about the same thing? (Of course not. In context, the wife was told not to drink it and the husband was told not to put it on his skin.)

    Could the wife still use cosmetics that contained alcohol on her skin? (Of course she could.) Could the husband still drink alcoholic beverages? (Of course he could. The two abstentions are completely unconnected.)

    You're taking a statement that was spoken two thousand years ago in connection with whether Christians should be circumcised and keep the Law and pretending to me that it was spoken by an angel in an operating room!

    Could you please explain how that's an honest way to treat the Bible?"

  • TD
    TD
    So in 1961, you could not accept hemoglobin, but in 2006 you could. No......no 'shifting of opinion there at all.

    It's even worse than that Mary. In 1999 you could not accept hemoglobin, but in 2000 you could.

    The JW parent organization never, ever directly informed Witnesses that hemoglobin based blood substitutes were forbidden.

    But two Witness HLC members speaking on behalf of the Society did confirm this in a medical journal. (The View of Jehovah's Witnesses on Blood Substitutes, Artificial Cells, Blood Substitutes and Immobilization Biotechnology 1998;26:571-576)

  • just n from bethel
    just n from bethel

    Not only did I understand the doctrine was wrong based on the whole fraction scenario - but I understood it was wrong from a scriptural perspective as well. I was reading the Bible for the first time without Watchtower presupposutions and I got the account of Jesus healing the woman with a flow of blood. She was breaking the law by being in the crowd and sneakily went up to Jesus so she could hopefully have her non-life threatening disease cured - what did Jesus do? He commended her. The more I read about Jesus and his load being light, the more I realized this policy - the videos, the hlc, the never ending changes, the fear-based rules - none of that has anything to do with Jesus.

    But that one account has always stuck with me - Person with a non-life threatening disease, breaks law, Jesus says she's faithful. What would Jesus say about someone breaking a religious law that has been changed many times over, with a real life threatening illness??? I think the GB knows, I think the service department knows, and I think the anybody that thinks about Jesus' message and life knows as well.

    I was talking about this matter to another elder a long time ago when I was still an elder myself. He made the comment that the 'friends can read' and that he himself carries 50 plus pages of Watchtower references on blood at all times (I think he was PVG). I said that's the problem right there. That is not a light load. I said there's no such thing as a "fornication liason committee". Everybody knows what the scriptures mean about not committing fornication. You read the scriptures and you get it. Until JWs wacky health-care writers in the 50s, all Christians and pre 50s JWs knew blood was not to be eaten. You know - keep it out of your diet, to the best of your ability, but no need to go all Kosher.

    Now it's videos and kms and deeply buried changes in QFRs in a WT here or there. It's pressure from the HLCs to make every hospitalitzed Witness seriously consider taking fractions even though not one of them could explain why God might allow some fractions but not others. It's a heavy, heavy, load. Cell savers, EPO, hemopure, and a list that goes on and on. Is this part of the knowledge that leads to everlasting life? Is the light load Jesus was talking about?

    When I brought up all that to my fellow elder - he had no reply. The blood policy is the epitome of Pharisaical teachings Jesus was against.

    I remember when I thought I was such a clever little believing JW, because I would say something like, "well can a doctor guarantee you won't die if you take blood?". Now I realize how stupid that sounds. Doctors wouldn't guarantee you wouldn't die from a broken finger. It's a ridiculous assertion to begin with. Because what usually happens when I bring up the scriptural problems with the blood doctrine, is that they change the subject to a health risk topic. Usually they say something like 'well I really don't know what risks I'll be getting by taking in someone's blood.'

    But thanks to all the changes to blood and blood fractions the health risk argument has become a mute point, so I reply with something like - 'well those same risks are in blood fractions. Do you know why? Because IT IS STILL BLOOD. So don't tell me you think the risks of blood transfusions prove this is God's law - because you still encounter the same risks when you allow yourself to take blood fractions - HIV, Hep C, etc. - Also you might have choices of taking your own blood or that of relative like a parent with whom you may have already received blood from in the womb. But as far as health risks go - I am 100% for considering all health risks when undergoing doctor recommended medical procedures. Get second opinions as needed. But get your information from doctors and health care professionals, not some JW elder that can't even administer CPR. There are some people that choose not to take chemotherapy or radiation therapy and that's fine. I will always respect an individual's right to make an informed choice based on real health risks vs rewards. However, I cannot respect anybody that makes a potentially life or death decision based on a man-made interpretation of a scripture, from the old ideas of ones who have no medical training whatsoever.'

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