Has anyone ever heard this theory about God and Satan? (page 3)

agonus

Satan and Jesus are both scapegoats IMHO, Jesus just has more appealing packaging (I mean, unless you're a goth type... nothing against goths but that was never my thang)

agonus

Sorry Serenity, didn't mean to dilute what little clarity you might have had, but if we weren't all a little bewildered we wouldn't be on this forum in the first place, right?

agonus

The only thing that's ever made any logical sense to me is love (and my kids).

Funny thing though... you have to lose love first in order to be left with nothing but logic to get you by...

But then when logic is all you have left you realize that love is just about the only logical thing there is!

FlyingHighNow

FHN reading the bible I'm not getting a love vibe. I believe that Satan is just a scapegoat, he gets the blame for everything. God wants the glory for anything that goes right, whether or not he had anything to do with it.

But Tammy, do we then discount the rest of the bible? Is the god of the new testament different from the god of the OT? That's what I've never understood. Jesus does seem to be loving, but Jehovah, not so much.

Read Jehovah Unmasked. 1 John 4:8 God is love. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Definition of love. If someone says God did this or that, hold it up against the definition of love. If it doesn't match up, it's not God. Is the God of the new testament different from the old? You betcha. We had a discussion at church. Literalists take the bible and they elevate it to godlike status. They worship it. But what is the bible? It's writings and histories from two ancient peoples about things and perceptions and culture of their times. Just because some writer said that Joshua was told by God to slaughter people, doesn't mean God told him to or that Joshua actually was behind it either. Read Jehovah Unmasked and find a different way to look at Jehovah. Gnostic Christians believed that Jehovah was an under god. I'm not saying I believe it all, but before I ever read it I knew that 1 John 4:8 and 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 were the standard for God. If something didn't measure up to them, it was not and still is not God. With a god like the old testament Jehovah, who needs a Satan?

agonus

IMHO, Jehovah, Jesus, and Satan are all just demigods at best, or some lesser part of the Almighty Godhead. Only Almighty God is Almighty God. I don't personally prefer to dilute the Godness of God with crappy Anglicized Latinized Hebrew, but your mileage may vary.

Jesus is still all right with me though.

FlyingHighNow

Exactly, Agonus.

tec

But Tammy, do we then discount the rest of the bible?

You don't have to discount it. But it becomes a bit easier to find which parts were from God and which were from man's (mis) understanding of Him, especially when we look at what conflicts with what Christ taught and did.

Is the god of the new testament different from the god of the OT?

God is the same.

However...

What's written about Him doesn't always match up with who and what He is. Love, mercy, forgiveness - these things are written in the OT as well as the NT, but just as now, men focused on the more legalistic parts of the law rather than the love, mercy and forgiveness. This is one of the reasons we have Christ. To show us his Father, as His Father truly is.

That's what I've never understood. Jesus does seem to be loving, but Jehovah, not so much.

The Jehovah of the witnesses, perhaps not so much. But the Father of Christ... yes. Put your faith in the Son - look to the Son, Serenity - and you can 'see' the Father.

Tammy

AGuest

Is the god of the new testament different from the god of the OT?

Greetings, dear Serenity, and peace to you! I know you directed your question to dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!), but I would like to respond, if I may. Thank you!

Dear tec did truthfully state to you that it is Christ who shows us the Father. This is the greatest truth in existence. People look to the Bible to "see" God, but even that book contains statements that show it is tainted, having been altered by the "false stylus" of the scribes (upon whom my Lord also pronounced woe).

There is a very important statement, however, recorded in the Bible that was made by my Lord. If you can get the sense of it, you will have the answer to your question. It is recorded at John 18:37 and is my Lord's response to Pontius Pilate when that one asked "So, are you a king [of the Jews]?" My Lord's response, after reminding Pilate that it was he who said my Lord was a king, was this:

"For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth."

What did he mean by this? He also answers that in various statements where he says that he was sent by the Father and that he did nothing of his own initiative but only as he observed the Father doing. So, what do we do with that? We should reason that (1) if everything that Christ did resulted from what he learned from the Father and observed the Father doing, and (2) he condemned the "works" of the scribes (i.e., those who copied the scriptures, etc.) then (3) the "God" of the OT couldn't have been the Most Holy One of Israel. Because Christ was NOTHING like that and so the TRUTH is that neither was/is the Most Holy One of Israel.

The PROBLEM lies in the assumption that (1) the Bible is the Word of God (it isn't); (2) the Bible is infallable (it isn't), and (3) the Bible was compiled by God (it wasn't). These three LIES are the foundation for the confusion caused by the contradictions of the Bible. One would not be subject to such confusion, however, if (1) one realized that the ONLY Word of God is Christ; (2) the Bible is not "scripture" (although it contains some scripture) and thus not only IS infallible, but has absolutely been tampered with, altered, and in many places contains things that were contrived (by men); and (3) the Bible was compiled by a council of men who were more the agents of the Adversary than any agent of God.

Some know this and thus, only publish the NT portion of the Bible. They feel that the OT is a cause for stumbling and, given what you've posted, it well may be. It does not need to be, however. If one turns one's face toward... so as to listen to the voice of... Christ... one can "see" where the OT (and the NT!) is accurate... and where it is not. No, that is not correct: one can HEAR where both are accurate and where they are not. For as my Lord finished his reply to Pilate:

"Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.”

Again, I bid you peace... and ears to hear. Both the truth of this matter as well as when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:

"Come! Take 'life's water'... the holy spirit of God, which "oil of exultation" is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... FREE!"

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

possible-san

serenitynow!

It is very interesting topic.

Well, I think that Dr. Joseph Murphy's books have answered to that question, although I sometimes have introduced them in this forum.
Since I have only Japanese version books, I cannot quote from those books, but there is the following book, for instance.
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Bible-Truths-Human-Problems/dp/0875162142/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_11

But unless, as for this book, you are familiar with his writings, you may be unable to understand.
And if you are a fundamentalist, you may be unable to understand the contents of that book.

"There is only One Power , and we can use it constructively or negatively."
by Joseph Murphy ("Within you is the Power" p. 232)

possible

possible-san

Well, with regard to John 18:37, I have a different view.

http://godpresencewithin.blog86.fc2.com/blog-entry-3.html

Machine translation:
http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/english/web/?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fgodpresencewithin.blog86.fc2.com%2Fblog-entry-3.html&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=

possible

Has anyone ever heard this theory about God and Satan?

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