Just how much of a SUCCESS is God..........so far?

by Terry 65 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    :Just how much of a SUCCESS is God..........so far?

    I would ask another question, Terry: "What kind of a real God is interested in being a "success" to his very own creation of puny, petty, imperfect, frail and mortal humans?"

    A decent God, or a shitty God? That assumes, of course, that God is the least bit interested in being a "success" in front of his flawed creatures. That would assume that such a God wouldn't be content with creating an unimaginably huge cosmos with billions and billions of galaxies, each containing billions and billion of stars, many also containing planets, moons, and asteroids, with everything overall somehow still all hanging together without disintegration. This would assume that such a God wouldn't be content with creating an unbelievably huge body of physics to make everything happen, including the right circumstances for all the elements to form from hydrogen after the big bang, and for all of life to begin from the most simple of non-living proteins. No! This God wants to be a "success" with his humans! Pffffffflllllooooooooot!

    I'll be grateful to God for his physics, but damned if I will be a worshiper of a God because of his vanity. God will be around a lot longer than I will, and so my gratitude to a vainglorious God will be as worthless to a real God when I die as it would be now.

    Farkel, Deist CLASS

  • tec
    tec
    Saint 'Paul's' rants against Judaism in Romans show he may never have spent much time with real Jews.

    PSac responded to this on another thread, and I can't remember which one. I don't remember reading your response to him. But he said something along the lines of having spoken to a Jewish scholar, who says that there were a few different sects of Judaism running around in Jesus' time. And that Paul was actually in line with the Pharisees. He did say that after (I'm not sure I remember this part right, sorry Psac), Paul would have been redefining his 'sect' of Judaism to bring it into line with Christ's example/teaching?

    Paul didn't endorse slavery. He just said that if you ARE a slave, then be good to your master, and vice versa. He also said that if you could gain your freedom, then by all means, do so... because all are equal under God.

    Tammy

  • tec
    tec

    Farkel - welcome back :)

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear designs...

    you said: "It may be time to understand Judaism and then see that the NT is arguing against a false conception of Judaism. Like buring people as Witches in New England, false charges lead in all sorts of bad directions. 'Paul's' rants against a fictional Judaism led to the wholesale slaughter of Jews by Christians, 'Paul's' endorsement of Slavery (something Jews had abandoned for centuries) led to institutionalized slavery in the Christian world that lasted for over 1800 years."...

    it is my understanding that Judaism is a vibrant religion because it does and has had teachers that generation after generation keep re-evaluating their religion and their relationship to others outside their religion...but do they ever re-evaluate their relationship to God I wonder...Paul did.

    "'Paul's' rants against a fictional Judaism led to the wholesale slaughter of Jews by Christians,"...just wondering what time frame we are talking about here...because, of course, the "religion" of Christ would have His true followers reject and revile violence and indepentant of the ruling "authority" of the church structure many did and were in consequence murdered, tortured and reviled themselves.

    institutionalized slavery predates christianity...and the muslims practice it to this day in the guise of poligamy...if paul had said something along the lines of take slaves to yourselves then I would agree that he endorsed slavery however he didn't he acknowledged an existing practice and tried to resolve how adherants of the chistian faith should recognize that with equality there would be changing dynamics between master and slave that were not ever much part of that practice.

    love michelle

  • designs
    designs

    Michelle-

    Yes Jews, converts, all reevaluate the ideas and concepts surrounding 'God', ask moshe. The obvious problem with 'Paul' whoever that was is his understanding and condemnation of Judiasm. Its like an outsiders view, someone who writes authoritatively about something they have not experienced from the inside. Kind of like our former Religion the Watchtower Society writing Science articles and such, Paul makes serious mistakes in his depiction of Judaism.

    Saying Muslims do to it is not much of an alleviation to what Christians practiced with approval from the highest ranks of the Church. Both the 'Jesus' character of the Gospels and Paul use the 'Slavery' metaphor in their preaching, Jesus even telling people to be a 'Slave' of himself. Very crude and inappropriate metaphor for someone trying to 'Free' people from sin and death. But here again Judaism in that same era had a very complete answer to these age old issues and the NT never addresses them which only leads to the supposition that the NT was monkeyed with by some non-Jewish half educated, in terms of Judaism, individuals.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear designs...

    "Yes Jews, converts, all reevaluate the ideas and concepts surrounding 'God', ask moshe."...have they re-evaluated the way they relate to God or do they maintain that through the "law" and the testimony of the prophets (isaiah 8:16-17) is the way that God would have them relate to Him?...paul describes a new way that men are to relate to God, through His Son whom the "law-abiding" prophets foretold.

    "The obvious problem with 'Paul' whoever that was is his understanding and condemnation of Judiasm."...Jesus condemned the practices that the priests of the law were doing too...it had devolved to practices that showed no mercy(john 8:5-7) and God even withdrew His protection from those that practiced it...Jesus warned those that would listen to Him that there would be a time when they should flee Jerusalem (matthew 24:15-16)and they did, but the jews that were confident in God's continued protection after denying His Son were slaughtered.(hosea 4:6-7)

    "Its like an outsiders view, someone who writes authoritatively about something they have not experienced from the inside."...but you concede that there have been re-evaluations of judaism since the time of paul...which means to me that what they thought and practiced back then could very well be something quite different than what is thought and practiced now especially considering the temple sacrifices and all the pagentry and homage accorded to the priests has ended.

    "Saying Muslims do to it is not much of an alleviation to what Christians practiced with approval from the highest ranks of the Church."...why not?...the muslims have never stopped practicing it, from the inception of islam it has been condoned by teachers and followers alike. the "authority" of the church structure (meaning catholicism) became debased in more ways than practicing slavery but that there were many (followers and lay teachers) that didn't approve of their practices can be seen in the fact that there was a split from the catholic church and a reformation. slavery as a practice of the church is not taught in the NT but it is taught in the koran so a re-evaluation of what is taught isn't needed.

    "Both the 'Jesus' character of the Gospels and Paul use the 'Slavery' metaphor in their preaching, Jesus even telling people to be a 'Slave' of himself."...Jesus showed that He thought of Himself as a slave by washing the feet of His disciples and he said His followers were to be slaves of each other which again denotes an equality between "brothers" instead of a master/slave relationship, humility was to be practiced not "lording it over others".

    "But here again Judaism in that same era had a very complete answer to these age old issues"...what is that answer?

    "NT never addresses them which only leads to the supposition that the NT was monkeyed with by some non-Jewish half educated, in terms of Judaism, individuals."...the selection of writings may very well have been done by all non-jewish people but that doesn't mean that the writings were by the type of people that you describe...again...the judasim practiced then has undergone a lot of changes since the jerusalem temple was destroyed and that is not a supposition.

    love michelle

  • streets76
    streets76

    Didn't he make People's Sexiest Gods Alive list last year? That's pretty successful.

  • designs
    designs

    Michelle- respectfully sit down with a local Rabbi and learn about the History of the Jews and what they thought and believed in that era. It is a rich and diverse tapestry completely different than what a person would come away with if they are reading the NT.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear designs...

    there are no rabbis in camrose...

    do you think that perhaps contemporary rabbinical interpretation of events might not be at all biased?...or that they might be more accurate than God's far reaching interpretation[OT]? (+ you are suggesting Jesus and His disciples are liars[NT])

    God's prophetic warning came to pass and there is no changing that...though there could be a denial of the (God given) reason for the devastating events of that era, couldn't there?

    love michelle

  • designs
    designs

    Michelle-

    There should be a good Library in your area, that could be a starting point for Jewish studies. There is always bias in reporting history and in our studies we should try to take in many perspectives. That's a lesson we learned as we left the Watchtower.

    Once a person has a basic concept of what Judaism was in that era and then reread the NT and the statements and observations attributed to the characters called Jesus and Paul a new perspective should surface.

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