ESTEE - I like your reasoning. Yeah, you would figure if " holy spirit " appointed elders in a depressed state it failed. Though they would probably say " elders are imperfect and get depression ". There's always SOME excuse WT society uses. Personally- I don't believe in " holy spirit ". I'm spirited enough in my own self
WT Society wants Elders to Conceal Information to Psychiatrists- Elders Bk.
by flipper 58 Replies latest jw friends
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flipper
Hey ITSACULT, it's still a cult . LOL ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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Band on the Run
B/c of Witness abuse, I've seen my fair share of psy docs. All of them exclaim when they hear about JW. They are concerned it my present belief. Next, they apologize but tell me their experience has left them with total disdain.
I am a lawyer. Confidentiality is important. A therapist could lose their license for revealing information learned during the therapeutic process. It lacks street cred. A person should worry about their privacy, not the privacy of the entire world.
It was a major think for me to seek help. I was told they would sap my free will, much as a demon would. I braced myself. They don't give you answers. I wish. Not once did they dispute JW doctrine with me. My religion was respected.
This is about maintaining a monopoly on a person's mind. Truth cannot be denied. What is their fear?
Do they pay the elders damages for the emotional pain when a counselee commits suicide. My experience shows how biological depression is. Antidepressants could not work if it were a matter of laziness or bad character. Human decency would encourage them to counsel seeing the family doctor at the very least. Witnesses don't have normal social supports.
It is a cult interested in preserving itself. Humans don't count. I feel a real helplessness knowing what I know and unable to persuade current Witnesses. Maybe it is incumbent upon us to chip away at the beliefs. Maybe in the aggregate all the challenges will work.
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satinka
When congregation members find themselves depressed, the elders often will advise against therapy. If the member goes for therapy anyway, and happens to tell the therapist, "My spiritual advisors told me not to get therapy." ... well, it makes the elders look bad, in my humble opinion.
When I got depressed as a congregation member back in the 90s because of memories of abuse, I was told, "No one looking behind the plow is well-suited for the kingdom."
Can you feel the love?
satinka
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flipper
BAND ON THE RUN- Your statement " It is a cult interested in preserving itself. Humans don't count " - no truer words have ever been spoken on this board. I totally agree the WT society de-values humans to preserve it's end game. As you found out from your doctors - Jehovah's Witnesses have a bad reputation in the community of being calloused and uncaring towards family and it's members. I'm sorry you went through abuse yourself. I hope things have worked out a little better for you now though. Hang in there.
SATINKA- Yes, I agree. It DOES make the elders look bad and downright inhumane if counselors are told by witnesses their elders advised them against getting professional help. But in my opinion - exposure is what needs to happen about what goes on inside these congregations. The outside world needs to hear about what happens in a closed society like Jehovah's Witnesses. And they need to hear it from someone on the outside- not witnesses themselves. That person who told you to essentially forget your abuse - they need to be hung up by their ears. Very hurtful words. I'm sorry they treated you that way . Keep your chin up
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mindmelda
ROFL...I go to a psychologist AND a psychiatrist both because I'm bipolar and I've spent hours talking about being a JW and how it affected me.
I can see why they'd want to to shut up about it...I haven't found a therapist yet I've described the WTS DF practices and some other things who thought it was emotionally healthy.
It's rather amusing to see the shocked looks of my therapist as I describe what really goes on inside Jehovah's Witnesses that isn't apparent to outsiders.
I've gotten a couple of "Jesus Christ!, you're kidding!"s out of her on occasion.
People just have no idea...and that's the way they like it, unless they've conditioned you slowly to accept all this insanity as normal.
Counseling from elders is defined by me as "Go and get your dose of brainwashing before you start thinking for yourself."
My husband, who left after I did, actually, was ahead of me in one way, "Never go to the elders with a problem," he once said to a friend who was going to go to the elders with a problem,"unless you want to get your ass kicked and your brain handed to you in a jar of pickle juice."
BTW, I haven't contributed here in a while, but feel pretty great these days.
I'm over the "hate" phase pretty much and all my focus is on recreating my life. It's actually fun doing that most of the time, without all that guilt and nonsense beating you over the head all the time.
I've learned that the world is much less scary than the WTS, which I find rather hilarious now.
A Witness came to my door and asked if I found the world conditions alarming not long ago...and I replied. "Not nearly as alarming as the fact that religions still aren't being taxed...I see no reason for any of them to be tax exempt, especially when the economy is so awful."
That really got them off the doorstep fast. LOL It's one of those things they have no real answer for, it isn't covered by pat doctrinal pamphets they carry or memorized sermons although that stuff doesn't phase me anymore either.
A person with any sort of real education, even gleaned through personal reading, can blow a Witness who comes to their door out of the water, something they really hate to admit.
Never let them intimidate you...they're not that smart, honest.
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LongHairGal
FLIPPER:
Of course they would want things in the religion concealed from doctors because the world would be horrified if they knew what goes on. I know of somebody who had a breakdown and her doctor didn't want her to go to her meetings (hmmm, I wonder why?). Her non-JW family confided this to me.
MINDMELDA:
I really can relate to what your husband said about not going to the elders with a problem unless you want your ass kicked and your brain handed to you in pickle juice.
I learned this first hand the hard way years ago. But boy, was I ever rudely awakened!! I remember calling up an elder with a serious problem in my family. I remember being criticized by a very stupid man, with his own biases, no less. I was made to feel that I had no business complaining and needed to 'put on a christian personality'. This man could not relate to me or any of my problems. I was left reeling and certainly never confided in this idiot again.
I also never accepted any shepherding calls because they were nothing but occasions for ignorant men (strangers, really) to criticize me about MY life and MY business.
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mindmelda
We used to joke that "sheparding" was a Watchtower code word for "Can I come to your house, eat some cake and coffee and then rudely criticize you for an hour?"
No one gives you a sheparding call unless the elders feel you're in need of some ass-kicking or the Circuit Overseer is there and they need to look like they're sheparding the flock.
At least, not in my 36 years of being a baptized Witness.
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sabastious
mindmelda,
I had a sheperding call one time because my wife and I were very infrequent in our meeting attendence. I was in the midst of a heavy depression that ending up lasting for a few years. My catch 22 was that the meetings were so negative, at times, that going to them made me feel worse. Just reading the guilt trips in the Watchtower at home could sometimes trigger panic attacks.
So these two elders come over to my house. They sit down and we chit chat for a little bit then he pulls out the Bible and reads the verse from Proverbs about the "stupid one isolating himself" or some crap like that. My wife burst into tears because she knew from experience that going to meetings meant more panic attacks once we got home.
I came to the conclusion that the Watchtower is extremely ill-equipped to handle people with depression. I have no doubt that many suicides have come as a result from the Organizations lack of policies for the mentally ill.
It's a sad state of affairs.
-Sab
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mindmelda
My dad had panic attacks for years trying to go to meetings, and they pulled that one on him too. Ironically, the reason the meetings gave him panic attacks is because he was treated badly at the Kingdom Hall in a very public way by one elder in particular, on several occasions, when he was an elder himself.
They didn't agree on some things so that elder would use his talks and comments at the meetings to openly attack my dad. He didn't use my dad's name, but he'd look right at him when he'd make his comments, and I'd watch my dad go white and squirm. My dad is a very mild fellow, this guy was and is a real aggressive and arrogant sort.
Anyway, my dad got to where every time he'd get ready to go to a meeting, he'd get headaches, stomach cramps, anxiety attacks and couldn't go. Even though he'd stepped down as an elder he couldn't stand going there, perfectly understandable, I think.
Even now, 15 years later, he mostly listens to meetings remotely, on the speaker phone. He's 71, his age and health are his excuses now, but I think he still hates going there.
My dad was known for being a kind and gentle elder, who people went to and got genuinely kind and helpful advice...many missed that when he stepped down. I had many tell me that, anyway. They run off anyone who is a genuinely Christlike person, or so it seems to me.
A lot of elders are congregational police, bean counters, cheap suit lawyers and district attorneys, nothing more.