WT Society wants Elders to Conceal Information to Psychiatrists- Elders Bk.

by flipper 58 Replies latest jw friends

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    I agree it's all about protecting the Society at all costs, anything less is seen as disloyalty to not just them, but to Jehovah, which is pretty much the same thing.

    And of course, once you become disloyal, you're an outsider, treated like one.

    Funny, we have local Mennonites here and they run several businesses. They remind me so much of Witnesses, except they don't do door to door peddling. But given a chance, they will speechify about their religion to you.

    They're nerdishly clean cut, the women dowdy even, and they make it clear that even though they deal with you in business, you're a "wordly" person. They are proud of their scrupulous honesty and lack of materialism, too. Sound familiar?

    I looked at some comparitive religion studies and sure enough, Mennonites are somewhat related to Witnesses in their social set up, all these religions practice a form of shunning. Once you're out, you are just one of those worldlings they're afraid of, basically.

    But, I wonder how a person in these faiths would be regarded if they went to a counselor and talked about how miserable it was to be a Mennonite or Amish? I wonder if it's fairly rare, or what?

    It can't appeal to everyone born to it, I'm sure. I wish Witnesses were even that open minded about realizing their religion isn't appealing to the masses...at least the Amish and Mennonites are aware of it.

  • Snoozy
    Snoozy

    Is the Elder's Manuel available on line?

    I thought it was at one time.

    Snoozy..

  • TotallyADD
    TotallyADD

    Dear Flipper, I have no idea what my wife I mean reopened mind is talking about. My mind has not cleared up. It is still cluttered with years of cult thinking. Just kidding. If that therapist only knew what she started. I remember her telling me how this was going to make me a better elder. What it did do was to help me see how bogus this organization is. We had a poor young sister( twenty something) in our hall who had horible emotional problems could not eat, thin as a rail. All the so called older sisters knew exactly what she needed to do. Go out in service, read her bible, go to the meeting. The elders for the most part gave her the same advice. The thing was her emotional problems would not allow her to do any of those things. I personally went to here mother and told her to get her to a doctor now. First the mother told me she is taking vitamins. I told her she just wasted $150.00 Get Her To A Doctor I told her with much conviction in my voice. Finally after serveral months the mother took her to a doctor which lead to a Psychiatrists. At this same time the older sisters and other elders where saying she is just lazy she needs to go to work, get out is service, read her bible, go to meetings. Well guess what? It turn out she is Bi-Polar. Now on medicine doing 1000% better. Gain about 30lbs. And is able to function for the most part. The mother told me she always thought Psychiatrists were demon inspired. And yet they were the ones that finally help her daughter not doing out in field service, reading the bible and going to meetings. Totally ADD

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    The meds for bipolar are notorious for causing weight gain, as they slow metabolic function. :(

    Elders are not doctors, nor psychiatrists, nor psychologists.

    Most of the ones I knew were businessmen, janitors and construction workers...how does that qualify you to give people advice on their medical and psychological problems?

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I'm an American lawyer. My use of md applied to me. There is not a special psychiatrist privilege and confidentiality. Rather, it is broader and encompasses all licensed therapists. These rules predate statutes. They are much older common law privileges, developed in the Middle Ages in England. The original ones were spousal and priest/penitent. She was so outside the proper boundaries of her profession. If she reported and you reported her or sued her, she would be finished. Finished completely. Common law rules, backed by modern statutes, are a declaration of state and federal policy. An individual cannot negotiate to alter them. Some areas of law can be negotiated between the parties, such as contracts and partnerships. Negotiation is expected.

    It would totally anger a state regulatory agency or a court that she used unequal bargaining power. People are at their most vulnerable when they see therapists. Normal constraints are waived. She had an overwhelming unequal bargaining position. Courts go ape about professionals crossing clear, bright lines. The paper would be worthless. The very act of requesting signature could cause her to be reprimanded or have her license suspended. I am sensitive in this area b/c I've seen therapists and know how not an equal partnership it is.

    Laws apply to everyone. A Jehovah's Witnesses cannot carve out an exception. Of course, she did. Mormons cannot sign papers making underage polygamous marriage legal. This was overreaching on a large scale. Lawyers can no longer chase accident victims to the hospital and shove papers in their face. Privacy concerns are becoming a central motif in law. Her act eroded all privacy.

    Lest I come across judgmental about someone continuing to see such a person, I was very, very ill with utterly agonizing pain for decades. The worst pain known to humankind with a suicide rate in excess of 95%. Doctor after doctor overreached with me. I knew they were wrong in my gut. In fact, one dentist kept me coming back to his office and administering gas. I felt no pain when I was out. Once I came out, it was just as bad. He started asking me sexual questions. The bastard critiqued my eye makeup. He would make me wait until I was the only patient in his office. Rather, than stop treatment and maybe report his behavior, I called my mother and asked her to come from NJ to be present with me. Local friends were not asked b/c I feared their judgment that I was not reporting him.

    I spent thousands and thousands of dollars on doctors offering me no relief. It is one thing in black and white in a magazine article. Life has a different application. These situations were hard precisely because I was so desperate. I was totally shocked and nauseated by what I would accept. It is this phenomena that makes these laws necessary.

  • JRK
    JRK

    Flip,

    Why be tied up for the weekend when I could get you some handcuffs?

    JK

  • Reopened Mind
    Reopened Mind

    Thanks Band on the Run. I appreciate your legal input. Neither TotallyADD nor I had the presence of mind to think to ask for a copy at the time.

    The courts and/or a board of ethics need written proof to investigate a complaint. Without written proof it is just hearsay. I know you understand

    what a vulnerable position this can be from your experience with the unethical dentist. Thanks for sharing.

    Reopened Mind

  • flipper
    flipper

    Now that our electricity was finally restored after 2 days- I can reply again on this thread. This storm situation and snow has been tough this week.

    REOPENED MIND- Thanks for clarifying, appreciate it.

    BALTAR 447- I agree that JW counselors would be a joke. All they're going to do is give WT society crap information as advice. WT society would hold more power over them than their oath to their profession. Unless of course it's a " weak " Witness counselor. Then it's different.

    MINDMELDA - Even in other mainline cults or some churches - outsiders ARE treated differently from attending members. The Mormons, Scientologists, Jehovah's Witnesses ALL have shunning policies towards ex-members AND they all consider non members as outsiders or unenlightened. I have found that MANY religions think they have the ONLY answer to the universe. One reason I'm spiritual, but NOT religious.

    SNOOZY- If you want a copy of the Elders manual , I suggest you PM the poster YKNOT - that's how I got mine, through a PM from her. WT society made such a stink over this website having the elders manual being on the forum here- many of us had to PM someone to attain the Manual copies. So, just a suggestion.

    TOTALLY ADD- Good post by you. Thanks. Isn't it amazing when we get non-Witness advice from alleged " worldly " counselors - it ends up helping us when elders don't know HOW to help someone who is depressed ? It's a miracle. Actually it makes ALL KINDS of sense. Instead of receiving cult mind control as counsel- we receive logical, sane direction to deal with our problems. I'm so glad you advised the young JW lady to get therapy with a counselor. And wouldn't you know it ? She WAS Bi-polar. Kudos to you for helping her AND her mom see the importance of going to a counselor. You probably saved a life- or helped make a life a hell of a lot better ! I'm proud of you.

    BAND ON THE RUN- Thanks for the great post clarifying how the laws work ! I appreciate it. I'm so sorry you suffered with your situation and dealt with unethical dentists and professionals not treating you fairly. I hope things are going better for you now my friend. Take care

  • flipper
    flipper

    JRK- Yeah, first time I've been online all weekend. Lost our electricity for 2 days to a crazy a$$ snow storm out here in the mountains. Now I'm re-connecting with mankind again. LOL ! Hope you're doin good

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