GB Member Barr dies

by Red Piller 116 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    But yet David does it and he is considered faithful....

    Please excuse the intrusion, dear Botz (peace to you!), but David WAS faithful. He not only believed in the Most Holy One of Israel, but absolutely heard the Voice of His Word, Christ. Indeed, 99% of what David (and others) recorded was not his own words, but my Lord's. If you read the Psalms from beginning to end, you might possibly be able to "hear" this for yourself.

    David was not, however, 100% moral, obviously. Certainly not in what he did with Uriah and Bathsheba.

    The Most Holy One of Israel does not require a man to be completely moral, however (a view of Israel should show this)... but faithful (the lack of which was often Israel's downfall, along with things like not listening to instructions and their heinous oppression of their fellowman, particularly the sick, poor, widowed, and orphaned).

    Again, I bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    Barr may be remembered by many as kind, loving, approachable, friendly........... yada yada yada!

    But like the rest of the GB (living or dead) he was also a......... SPECULATOR! Not once did he apologize for being wrong and misleading the rank & file. He along with the rest of the GB have an ongoing track record of 'going beyond the things that are written' (1Cor 4:6). For that he should also be remembered!

  • Bonnie_Clyde
    Bonnie_Clyde
    7 members left. 4 are needed for a 2/3 vote.

    I think they would need 5 for a 2/3 vote. 4 would only give them 57%.

  • Botzwana
    Botzwana

    AGuest, So what is faithful? Having sex with another man's wife is being unfaithful right? Killing him too? So I do ask in humbleness, what is faithfulness? What is unfaithfulness? A man touched the ark and was killed by God for his unfaithfulness. But David does far worse and is considered faithful. I need to know. I am having a crisis of faith and conscience right now. The society makes me feel that nothing I do is enough and I will be destroyed at the Big A anyways. I am supposed to love God with my whole heart but I never have. I like this world too much. It 's too attractive for me. What does it mean to love the world? I attended all meetings etc. but still felt like it wasn't enough. I feel upset at the crap the society has about beards and wedding rings etc.

  • ohiocowboy
    ohiocowboy

    I don't wish death upon anyone, as it is not my place to try and play "god", so I hope he rests in peace and if there is some type of judgement that awaits him, may he be shown the error of his ways by whatever force there may be.

  • JRK
    JRK

    They had better appoint new GB's ASAP. If a rash of death happens, the "new boys" will not be around to overlap.

    JK

  • JRK
    JRK

    Or is it "Last Man Standing?" He will become the new Russell. He would be the "FDS."

    JK

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    Red Piller:

    I meant to thank you earlier for the info. on Barrs' passing away. It's nice to be a part of something where you can news 'hot off the press'.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    AGuest, So what is faithful? Having sex with another man's wife is being unfaithful right?

    Actually, dear Botz (again, peace to you!)... that is not being "unfaithful". True, man has sort of changed the meaning of the words "faith"... and "faithful[ness]" to their own way of thinking/believing... but with regard to the Most Holy One of Israel that is not unfaitfulness. That would be covetousness... and disloyalty. Having sex with another man's wife is covetousness toward him... and disloyalty toward her.

    Killing him too?

    That would be murderous.

    So I do ask in humbleness, what is faithfulness? What is unfaithfulness?

    Faith, dear one (and I see your humility here, truly, and respond in kind), is the "'assured expectation' of the thing hoped for... the 'evident demonstration of reality'... though NOT beheld (i.e., see with the eyes of flesh). In this case, David would have been showing faith if he KNEW [assured] he would end up with [expectation]... Bathsheba [the thing [he] hoped for]. He would have based this assurance on some evidence he had already received [the evident demonstration] although perhaps not something he saw [though not beheld]. Hearing, then, could have sufficed.

    Problem is... David couldn't WAIT for JAH to give him the "thing" he "hoped" for... Bathsheba. Instead, he took matters into his own hands and as a result: coveted another man's wife, so as to commit adultery with her, making her an adulteress, and then plotted to kill him and indeed had him killed... which was murder. Yet, all of these, together... did not constitute an act that could not be forgiven.

    Because for one to BE forgiven one must exercise FAITH... in the One WHO forgives. And David did. Once he honestly realized that what he had done was heinously wrong, he knew there would be a price. He didn't argue, didn't try to justify, didn't excuse... but accepted that reality and the consequence: the death of his first child with the woman he truly loved. Now, some might say, "Wait, hey, it was the CHILD that paid." The child, however, never lived long enough to KNOW life... so could not know punishment. David, however, suffered for his acts. In that his child died because of him (what father wants THAT on his head?)... and that his new wife would also feel guilt the rest of HER life. Whatever love they had between them before was certainly tainted from that time on. They may have still loved each other... but they wouldn't ever forget what that loved cost.

    A man touched the ark and was killed by God for his unfaithfulness.

    Ummm... if it was unfaithfulness, it was because he did not put faith in the COMMAND to NOT touch it, else you would die. He didn't assuredly EXPECT that, if he touched it.. the thing "hoped for"... meaning, that which God said WOULD result (one would die)... would result. Should he have let it drop to the ground? Absolutely. That it might crack to pieces as a result wasn't his problem, but those whose task it was to carry the Ark. HE should have put FAITH... in what he heard.

    But David does far worse and is considered faithful.

    Yes, dear one. But that was because, for all of his bloodguilt and transgressions... David absolutely was a man of faith. Which is all the is required. That he was here is borne out in his response to Nathan. Any other king would have told Nathan were he could go and what he could do with his "prophesying." David didn't. He accepted that what Nathan had revealed to him was for NO OTHER REASON than that Nathan had indeed been sent by the True God to tell David. It was his faith IN that God... that ALLOWED David to even LISTEN.

    I need to know. I am having a crisis of faith and conscience right now.

    I absolutely understand. So many times over the years I have posted that I used to think that I KNEW what faith was. Or truth. love. Or peace. Or other fruits of God's holy spirit. I did not. Because those who purported to TEACH me... didn't know themselves. Once I began to learn from Christ himself, however... I realized that, as Socrates said... I knew nothing. Absolutely nothing. And so, rather than continue to turn to men... or even to the Bible/scriptures/Law for explanations as to what God thought, and what God said, and what God wanted... I turned to Christ. (2 Corinthians 3:15, 16) I began to look at HIM... listen to HIM... SEE HIM... full on. Through him, then, by means of holy spirit, my ears and eyes were opened... and now I don't have to any man anything. HE teaches me about such things... for example, what faith and faithfulness truly is. And he never lies, misleads, or speaks in unrighteousness. Never.

    The society makes me feel that nothing I do is enough and I will be destroyed at the Big A anyways.

    STOP LISTENING TO THEM.

    I am supposed to love God with my whole heart but I never have. I like this world too much.

    The "world" as the WTBTS sees it... or the "world" as God and Christ see it. Let me explain: my Lord said the "world" would hate me because once HE chose ME... OUT of the world... I would no longer be a PART of the world... and as a result, they would hate me. For me, the only thing that fits that bill... is the WTBTS. Although, yeah, they're couple/few here who apparently hate me, too. So, that makes them ALSO the world. At least, as to me.

    But as for the earth... the Most Holy One of Israel PROMISED earth to the sons of man. He created it for us... to reside FOREVER upon it. And we will. Once New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven TO the earth... God's will will be done ON earth. No crying, mourning, outcry, etc. Because everyone who exists in that society will know God... and thus, know love... peace... joy... faith... kindness... etc. Will they all have belonged to Christ? No. Only those who rule with Christ will have belonged to him. But these others will reap the benefits, as well... in the manner of Rahab... who saved her entire household simply because she did good to some Israelites. Whom she didn't even know... and whose God she did not worship.

    It 's too attractive for me. What does it mean to love the world?

    It means to love the things "of" the world: its hate, its hypocrisy, its lack of compassion and pity, its prevalence to oppress its fellowmen, to dominate others, to take what does not belong to them, to do anything to the detriment of its brothers, neighbors, strangers... even enemies. THAT is loving the "world."

    I attended all meetings etc. but still felt like it wasn't enough.

    When did Christ command you to attend meetings? When did he command going door to door, placing magazines? When did he tell you to have other leaders besides him? When did he tell you to follow Paul... or the Pope... or Martin Luther... or John Calvin... or the WTBTS GB? Did he not say that you have ONE Leader... and ONE is your teacher... HIM? You are in despair, dear Botz... because you have been misled. Starting with the LIE that you shouldn't eat the flesh or drink the blood of Christ and even so you will be resurrected and receive everlasting life. Yet, CHRIST is recorded to have said, "UNLESS you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood... YOU HAVE NO LIFE within yourselves." (John 6:53) Why did he say this? Because HE... is the Life (John 14:6). Thus, it is by means of HIM that any who live forever so do. And so, he also said, "He that feeds on MY flesh and drinks MY blood HAS EVERLASTING LIFE... and I SHALL RESURRECT HIM at the last day." (John 6:54)

    I feel upset at the crap the society has about beards and wedding rings etc.

    You should. They're irrelevant rules and laws that have absolutely no bearing on anything. But how can you KNOW? You don't need me to tell you, dear one. You can simply exercise faith... and HEAR what the Fine Shepherd meant when he said:

    "You are searching the Scriptures, because you THINK that by means of THEM you will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about ME. And yet you do not want to come to ME that you may have life." John 5:39, 40

    What does it take to "come" to Christ, dear Botz? The same thing it takes to hear... and see him. Faith. Not a lot; truly, just the size of a mustard seed. Problem is... most of us don't even have that. We THINK we do because we've been "faithful" to a religion, organization, church, denomination, belief system, etc. But none of those are the same as exercising faith... in Christ. They are simply poor (very poor) substitutes.

    I bid you peace... and ears to hear, if you truly wish them... when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:

    "Come! Take 'life's water'(which water, holy spirit, is the "oil of exultation" which the the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... pours out upon anyone asking... in FAITH... FREE!"

    Your servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... and a slave of Christ,

    SA

    P.S. If you want some insight into who the WTBTS really is... read the 23rd Chapter of Matthew's account. Peace to you and your household!

  • metatron
    metatron

    In the Soviet Union, you had the old Bolsheviks.

    In China, you had the veterans of the Long March.

    After they died - and their dead hands on preventing change were removed - things changed rapidly.

    I doubt that any moral reform of the Watchtower will happen now. The corruption is too far entrenched and institutional.

    but it will be interesting to watch!

    metatron

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