by minimus 36 Replies latest jw friends
Judgment is one of the things I hate most about the WTS..... therefore I will issue none. But what his death does do
is to give more basis for hope of release by other family members , when I can point out to my mother that the oldest member of the GB
(born 1934) is younger than my mother !!! The 1935 cutoff has proved to be completely false ! Destruction and death give me no satisfaction,
only the faint hope that passing of time and teachings will open many more eyes
BB - I agree with what you said.
Minimus - You know, I never really thought about what Franz did but now that I reflect on it, what courage it took to basically leave security to jump into the unknown at his age. He could have just as easily been like Barr and lived out his life at Bethel. We know the GB has great latitude to disagree with current teaching and it could have been very tempting to work within the system as a force for change. We all know that it probably wouldn't have worked and certainly Franz felt like he didn't have a shot at reform or he would have likely taken that route.
Like LWT said, we all die. I'm neither sad nor happy since I didn't personally know him. I'm sure family and friends are sorry he's gone and will miss him. Of course, at 97 he certainly lived a long life.
In terms of his participation on the GB, it doesn't really matter. It does mark the end of GB 1.0 and I would imagine that we'll see several appointments in 2011 to push the number up from 7 to maybe 12. I'm sure they'll have no problem finding a replacement just like our employers would have no problem finding a replacement for any of us.
I expect more of the same and seriously doubt that anyone new will rock the boat.
It is possible that Barr was a totally ignorant JW believer like your mother. That is not an insult to your mother.
Women are never in on the secrets in that cult. They can't move a single rung up the ladder toward the ivory tower of the GB.
But in my opinion, every rung a man climbs makes him slightly more responsible for his actions and lack of actions for or against ending the madness.
A Nazi soldier watching the death marches and even having to shoot the stragglers could be likened to a elder. He has cognitive dissonance and may never overcome it. He has some guilt-responsibility for carrying out his orders, but not nearly as much as Hitler himself or Hitler's generals.
So Barr could have kept a blind eye to the realities. It would have been a deliberate act to remain blind. That makes him just as responsible as someone who looked at (and understood) the terrible goings on and did nothing. Barr had knowledge of how the light got brighter, by the two-thirds vote and by pressure to conform by the likes of Jaracz or Fred Franz or whoever. Barr had secret knowledge of why blood fractions were considered okay vs. total abstinence. He knew how legal aspects of the doctrine ruled over decisions made. Choosing to be nice and kind are all wonderful, but he still had knowledge of such stuff and didn't go up to hospitals and tell members about that knowledge when their loved one was about to die for their obedience to the doctrines.
I credit that such people are victims of victims. I get that elders, C.O.'s, and D.O.'s are in a mind-prison, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. I fully understand the ex-JW or non-JW that draws that line way to the left (at the adult member or elder), I just disagree and draw it way to the right- at the inner sanctum of the ivory tower. I just cannot overlook the information available to these guys and say they are just like some "sister" in that they were ignorant of how they became victims of victims. Ray Franz is more forgiving of the cognitive dissonance than even I am on that. But I look at Ray Franz as someone who felt responsible for what he learned and could not participate anymore. I expect that from all the GB.
Bottom line- I am not happy that Barr died before he could do similarly to Ray Franz. But in the light of the fact that he had enough time to do just that in all those years, his finally passing won't cause me to shed a tear. The only happiness I derive is that this "overlap" thing will look more and more ridiculous as they are forced to get newer younger GB members.
'indifferent' would cover it.
I do not rejoice in the death of anyone but I think Bro. Barr bears more responsibility than your aged mother Minimus because he taught and crafted WT theology.
Foolish thing that I am (may you all have peace!), I find wisdom in the words at Proverbs 24:17, 18 (NWT), that:
"When your enemy falls, do not rejoice; and when he is caused to stumble, may your heart not be joyful, that JaHVeH may not see and it be bad in His eyes and He certain turn back His anger from against Him."
Given that the Body of Christ is "perfected" by love... even for its enemies... I would say that, for us, there is no point in being "glad" that Mr. Barr has died. On the other hand, since he had a very long... and very comfortable... life before doing so, there's also no point in being sad.
Again, peace to you all!
A slave of Christ,
SA
AGuest, well said!
surely GB members know what opposers and Apostates like ourselves have made us like we are , and I wont be fooled into thinking that all GB members think that dissident members only leave because they dont want to partake in the "preaching work" and they all want to lead immoral lifestyles, he knew full well about the UN scandal and said nothing, he knew full well about their disgusting policy on baby rapists and said nothing, he must have known about the flaws in their blood banning and said nothing. So saying that these bastards are victims as well does not sit well with me, they serve in the most exclusive,privileged position that 99.9% of the R&F could only ever dream about. The Nazi generals who went to the gallows during the Nuremberg trials doubtless used familiar excuses about remaining silent and only obeying orders, fortunately I dont buy his nice old man image as I dont with any of their ilk, they have heaped pain and misery on millions I'd rejoice with their passing if they went to their grave unrepentant.
I met him a long time ago, when I was child. He wasn't on GB then (75 or 76). He was old even then to me.
I'm ambivalent about his death, he had a long life and from 1977 on a very sheltered life probably a somewhat luxurious one. I know a lot of elderly , loyal witnesses that will not experience that.
He has to bear some responsibility for the actions of the organisation, but I don't believe he was malicious and was himself captive of the concept.
btt
