Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 310 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • designs
    designs

    Bishops Eusebius and Papias are genrally given credit for compiling some of the NT records. Their Anti-Semitism becomes obvious very early by promoting in the Gospels as 'Jewish' beliefs that were never 'Jewish', why the lies.

    'All four Gospels are so encrusted with non-Jewish elements- magical, the demonological, and the miraculous- that it would constitute almost a miracle in itself to be able to seperate the objective historical fact from the folk-legend and imaginative reconstruction.'. The Book Of Jewish Knowledge

    So can a Christian here honestly identify the non-Jewish and Anti-Semetic teachings and culture attributed to the 'Jews' in the NT. This is your challenge, because unless you can be honest with history and religion how are you any different than the Watchtower that you condemn.

  • Mary
    Mary
    Could you maybe explain why? and what about the verses they use to prove their points, are they all taken out of context or something? Wht about all the verses that say the meek wil inherit the earth etc..?

    Wow! To say you're only 19 and have never been a JW, you certainly seem to know and use alot of the same jargon and reasoning skills as active JWs.

    Anyway, giving you the benefit of the doubt here, yes, many of their doctrines are indeed "taken out of context". Good example is their weak explanation as to why not one of their prophecies has ever materialized. Whenever changes in doctrine are put to print (usually through either a study article in the Watchtower or an official letter from Brooklyn Bethel), they inevitably use ‘new light from Jehovah' as their reason for not getting it right the first time (and henceforth the change in their interpretation). To defend themselves against questions as to why the change is needed at all, they point to two scriptures:

    • Proverbs 4:17-18: "But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established."
    • Psalm 97:11: "Light itself has flashed up for the righteous one, And rejoicing even for the ones upright in heart."

    Now try reading the entire scripture at Proverbs 4:14-19. It says:

    "...Into the path of the wicked ones do not enter, and do not walk straight on into the way of the bad ones. Shun it, do not pass along by it; turn aside from it, and pass along. For they do not sleep unless they do badness, and their sleep has been snatched away unless they cause someone to stumble. For they have fed themselves with the bread of wickedness, and the wine of acts of violence is what they drink. But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established. The way of the wicked ones is like the gloom; they have not known at what they keep stumbling..."

    So there you have it. Far from referring to explaining away their false predictions, it is simply referring to the two paths in life that a person can take: either the path of a righteous man, or that of a wicked man. If someone persists in "doing badness" with the "bread of wickedness" and "acts of violence", then the path they follow in life will indeed be "like the gloom", full of darkness and with no joy. But the person who is "righteous" and leads a good life, who's generous with their dealing with others, who is honest, trustworthy and has a good relationship with God, will (obviously) fair much better. Their path in life will be completely different from the wicked person and it will indeed be "like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established."
    There is absolutely nothing in these verses that even hints that it is referring to Jehovah ‘shedding light' on their (erroneous) interpretations of the scriptures.

    Here's a couple more core doctrines that we've discussed at great length on here:

    Check out these links above if you want to really see the flip side of what the WTS teaches.

  • designs
    designs

    Regarding how bad it gets in the NT is in its lies and misinformation regarding Judaism-

    "Paradoxically, despite the abuse and scorn supposedly heaped by Jesus in the Gospels on the scribes, Pharisees and hypocrites he himself preached the very doctrines that they enunciated. This irreconcilable contradiction has been a source of much embarrassment to the fundamentalist Christian scholars" Ausubel

    "Their attacking the scribes, Pharisees and hypocritics en masse- as a class and not as individuals reveals the clear intent of the Gospel writers to disparage Pharisaic Rabbinic Judaism. They wished to make this out to be merely a variety of soulless religious legalism and the Sages themselves to be merely pettifogging lawyers, formalists outside and hypocrites inside. At the same time, they tried to contrast the noble spirituality of Jesus teachings with the Pharisees sole preoccupation with empty law and ritualism. This, as can readily be recognized, was but part of a well calculated campaign on the part of the NT writers to de-Judaize Jewish Christianity, to transform it into a new religion having strong Gentile appeal, for the prospects for gaining converts from among the pagans seemed far more promising than from among Jews". The Book Of Jewish Knowledge

    So again, why did the NT writers lie to the public.

  • designs
    designs

    Why have so few of you 'Christians' never been inside a Synagogue or studied real Judaism to know for yourselves what is true or false about the NT diatribes against the Faith of your Jesus.

    Nineteenth century NT scholar Julius Wellhausen wrote- 'Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew. He did not start a new faith'.

    So again, why is your NT and your Religion lying to you, are you willing to examine the evidence like you want Witnesses to do with their religion.

  • debator
    debator

    Hi Anonymous4

    I am a Jehovah's witnesses.

    This is an anti-witness site you will only get hatred and bitterness from the majority on here against witnesses. They avoid discussing the Bible truths (as you noticed) that witnesses live by and focus on imperfection of men issues and a few cleverly worded fallacious arguments designed to deliberately create doubt in you. It's not just the Witnesses either: they are also anti-Jehovah too. They would drive away any spiritual desire in you to find the truth according to God's kingdom. By telling you that no imperfect group of followers could be in receipt of God's blessing yet they are wrong. The Bible proves anti-witnesses wrong.

    Do not let the people on here tell you what to believe regarding the Witnesses! Please rethink rejecting your bible study. It isn't just about acquiring knowledge but about becoming one of Jehovah's people, in a time when religions turn away from Bible truths and from Jehovah and his beloved son Jesus and reject them in favour of men's opinion.

    If you want imperfect human opinion as to why not to be a Jehovah's witness you will get it on here but if you want God's word as to why we should be his people, you will find it in his word the Bible.

    Zechariah 13:9 This third I will put into the fire: I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them: I will say "They are my people" and they will say "Jehovah is our God."

  • designs
    designs

    debator- Your argument is similar to the western Christian concepts and diatribes. Quoting Zechariah regarding Jews and applying it to another religion is the classic way to get yourself so off the mark that everything else becomes skewed as well. Just follow the so-called 'Christians' here and their misunderstanding of Judaism and you readily see the problems compounding themselves in short order.

  • debator
    debator

    Hi designs

    You know perfectly well Zechariah is a future prophecy regarding God's people. It doesn't just relate to the jews alone and in fact is pointing to Jesus establishing the Christians and what happens from that point.

    Your argument would make Jesus a false prophet by his references to zechariah in regards himself and his followers..

    Jesus actually quotes Zechariah 13:7 in reference to what will happen to his apostles in Mathew 26:31 (a future event) and the events of 13:9 happen after this (another future event)

    The misunderstanding is all on your side!

  • designs
    designs

    No the misunderstanding occurs when someone confiscates the possession of another and uses it for themselves. Study Covenants from a strictly Jewish side and not how it got 'Westernized' by the Bishops and later Protestants.

    All the Watchtower Society did with their definitions of the New Covenant was to take John Calvin's ideas of Limited Atonement and Election Of The Elect and tweak it a little.

    See: Professor Marshall's work "New Testament Theology' and professor Penetecost's published work 'Things To Come' on Dispensationalism and you will understand the historical references.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW
    Do not let the people on here tell you what to believe regarding the Witnesses! Please rethink rejecting your bible study.
    It isn't just about acquiring knowledge but about becoming one of Jehovah's people, in a time when religions turn away
    from Bible truths and from Jehovah and his beloved son Jesus and reject them in favour of men's opinion.....debator/Reniaa

    Well look who fell out of her tree to comment..It`s debator/Reniaa!!.

    You actually have to do the work a real Jehovah`s Witness does..

    To be able to call yourself a JW..

    And..

    Jehovah`s Witness`s don`t have Bible Studys..

    Jehovah`s Witness`s study "WBT$ Literature" about the Bible..

    There is no Bible Study in WatchTower World..

    ........................ ...OUTLAW

  • debator
    debator

    Hi designs

    Trying to blast me with the fact Men have studied the Bible throughout the centuries as some kind of realistic argument is just plain silly. (yet again another imperfection of men fallacy argument)

    You have not addressed my point at all! Simply that it is Jesus himself by quoting Zechariah 13 in that chapter that establishes it definitely as a future prophecy regarding Jehovah's people which from then on are followers of Christ the promised Messiah aka Christians.

    Or are you saying the Greek scriptures are not part of the bible and that Jesus and his establishment of his followers from the Jews aka Christians (encompassing us gentiles) is a load of rubbish?

    Hi Outlaw

    Is mockery the only currency you use? It is a barrier that I feel disinclined to try and reach through when you seem unable to address any point without resorting to it?

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