Watchtower = Elders can disfellowship people for being too FAT!!! Has this happened?

by Witness 007 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    I think this rule is enforced unevenly. You might get a person that is very fat ("very fat" is not able to fit in one chair at the Kingdumb Hell) getting along just fine, until they get a hounder-hounder that orders this person to lose weight. I have seen a few that were very fat (including one that was a pio-sneer, despite being so fat that she needed a walker to waddle into the Kingdumb Hell and couldn't sit in one chair).

    Problem is, the religion makes it very difficult to maintain a healthy weight. One way to lose weight and keep it off includes walking a whole hour a day. Walking does not mean getting in and out of the car, walking or waddling to the door, and stopping. Walking means going at a brisk pace, where the person needs to consciously exert themselves, for a whole hour. Try doing that, and see how long it takes Brother Hounder to tell you that, if you can walk a whole hour a day, you can go out in field circus that hour.

    Other things that the religion does that makes keeping your weight down impossible include the pio-sneer diet, not getting enough sleep, the fumes from suit dry cleanings (which are stored in fat, making it very difficult to lose that fat), sitting 2 hours at a time at a boasting session, stress, and the continual rush to hurry up and get out in field circus. These things make losing weight needlessly difficult, independent on calorie intake. And, with all the stagnation the witlesses endure, eating is often the only thing left.

    And there are those who are fat, not because they are lazy pigs, but because they are sick. Numerous things are known or highly suspected of causing this. Eating excess monosodium glutamate and/or aspartame, especially in small children, makes you fat and this fat is extremely difficult to diet or exercise off. Chlorinated sugar and fatty acids (think: Splenda, chlorine in the water reacting with fat in your diet) both mess up your liver. High fructose corn syrup also ruins your liver, making keeping weight off difficult. Fluorides in the water ruin your thyroid (and pineal gland), slowing your metabolism. Soy and canola (rape) oils slow your thyroid (coconut oil speeds it up). People deficient in iodine (which you probably could use much more than you think you do) have trouble with their weight. And, you can get fat by dieting--your metabolism is messed up that way. Most very fat people actually eat less than healthy people, but their metabolisms are impaired. Which is why I don't think being fat is a sole criteria for gluttony.

    Trouble is, the hounders are the ones that make up these rules. Even when dieting is why you are fat (it ruined your metabolism), they will order you to give it yet another chance. They lose a few pounds, can't take it, go back to normal (which is actually normal eating for everyone else), gain back the few pounds they lost with interest, and get more of the guilt and pressure that makes it even harder to lose weight in the first place. Yet, if they start exercising and cleansing the poisons out of their system, the hounders nag them about taking care of their health to excess. And, either way, you could be running into "brazen conduct" if they hound you about it and you still do not obey.

  • blondie
    blondie

    BTW, df'ing for smoking was not based on it being a health hazard but being a practice of spiritism.

    *** w73 6/1 pp. 338-339 pars. 14-15 Keeping God’s Congregation Clean in the Time of His Judgment ***Do, then, persons who have not broken their addiction to tobacco qualify for baptism?

    The Scriptural evidence points to the conclusion that they do not. As has been explained in other issues of this magazine, the Greek word phar·ma·ki′a used by Bible writers and translated “practice of spiritism” or “spiritistic practices” has the initial meaning of “druggery.” (Gal. 5:20; Rev. 9:21) The term came to refer to spiritistic practices because of the close connection between the use of drugs and spiritism. Tobacco was also used initially by the American Indians in this way. It can properly be placed, therefore, in the category of addictive drugs like those that provided the source for the Greek term phar·ma·ki′a. The nicotine in tobacco does not have the same mental and emotional effects produced by “hard” drugs such as heroin or the so-called psychedelic drugs like LSD; yet nicotine addiction does definitely affect the mind and exercises a strong enslavement.

    ------------------

    *** g78 1/8 p. 28 Why Not Smoke? ***Consider a further point. Nicotine addiction affects the mind detrimentally and produces enslavement. Hence, it may be classed with addictive drugs, such as those that provided the source for the Greek term pha·ma·ki′a, initially meaning “druggery.” Due to the close connection between drug use and spiritism, this Greek word came to be associated with spiritistic practices. In fact, it was used by Bible writers and has been rendered “practice of spiritism” and “spiritistic practices” in passages that clearly condemn spiritism. (Gal. 5:20, 21; Rev. 9:20, 21) Therefore, persons who have not broken their addiction to tobacco do not qualify for baptism in symbol of an acceptable dedication to God.

    --------

    *** g86 4/8 p. 9 Facing the Facts: Tobacco Today ***Christians find the moral and Scriptural objections to tobacco use to be of even more weight than medical or health warnings. Tobacco use originated with animism, spiritism, and worship of man-made gods—all condemned in the Bible as degrading practices that lead one away from the Creator. (See box, “The Sacred Leaf That Caught On,” page 4.) (Romans 1:23-25) Smoking is unclean, dangerous, and contrary to Christian standards. (2 Corinthians 7:1) More importantly, addictiveness brings the habit within the scope of “druggery”—a condemnatory term used in the Bible for spiritually damaging and superstitious practices.—See the ReferenceBible footnote on Revelation 21:8; 22:15.

    -----------------

    *** jv (Proclaimers book) chap. 13 pp. 180-181 Recognized by Our Conduct ***For many years that counsel seemed to suffice. But as tobacco companies used advertising to glamorize smoking, and then abuse of “illegal” drugs became widespread, more was needed. Other Bible principles were highlighted: respect for Jehovah, the Giver of life (Acts 17:24, 25); love for neighbor (Jas. 2:8), and the fact that a person who does not love his fellowman does not really love God (1 John 4:20); also obedience to secular rulers (Titus 3:1). It was pointed out that the Greek word phar·ma·ki′a, which basically signifies “druggery,” was used by Bible writers to refer to “practice of spiritism” because of the use of drugs in spiritistic practices.—Gal. 5:20.

    -------------

    *** it-1 p. 788 Expelling ***Some of the offenses that could merit disfellowshipping from the Christian congregation are fornication, adultery, homosexuality, greed, extortion, thievery, lying, drunkenness, reviling, spiritism, murder, idolatry, apostasy, and the causing of divisions in the congregation. (1Co 5:9-13; 6:9, 10; Tit 3:10, 11; Re 21:8)

    --

    Secondly,

    All gluttons are not fat

    All fat people are not gluttons

    ------------------------

  • jam
    jam

    A circuit overseer and I call on A lady that was housebound because of

    her size. When we knock on the door she ask us too come in, this

    was around 10 in the moring. We enter and there she was sitting

    eating A whole chicken and bread. The whole time we were talking

    she was eating. She was A glutton and obese. Then we have three

    JW sisters, their weight 300lbs and above. Two were very active and one

    not so active. I knew them well and they were not gluttons, they

    ate the wrong type of food. In service you could tell which car they

    were riding in, it would lean to one side or if two were in the car

    it would be very low.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Noooo.....Fatness is not a sin , not even in J W la la land....It is easy for thin people to smirk at fat ones and say they are overeating, but that is not always the case.

    The Bible condemns gluttony so they repeat that . Someone with an unhealthy fixation for food might not even be obese..

  • freydo
    freydo

    First picture of the world's heaviest man is mobile again after losing an incredible 20 stone through gastric bypass surgery

    By Daily Mail Reporter
    Last updated at 3:48 PM on 2nd January 2011
    Comments (0)
    Add to My Stories


    This is the first picture of Paul Mason after he lost an incredible 20 STONE in just a year.

    Mr Mason, 49, weighed about 60st before undergoing life-saving gastric bypass surgery.

    Now he has celebrated his success by making a rare trip from his home in Ipswich, Suffolk.

    He told a friend:'All I want to do is be able to walk again and live like a normal human being.

    I've got a second shot at life and I'm not going to waste it.

    Mr Mason admitted to eating 20,000 calories a day, eight times the amount needed by an average man.

    His care bill costs taxpayers an estimated £100,000 a year and is believed to have topped £1million over the last 15 years.

    Firefighters had to demolish the front wall of his former home so they could drive a fork lift truck inside to lift him out and put him into an ambulance when he needed a hernia operation in 2002.

    At the time he weighed 56 stone and told doctors that he was desperate to lose weight.

    He ended up slimming down to 45 stone before piling the weight back on with his junk food diet.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1343452/Worlds-heaviest-man-Paul-Mason-lost-20-stone-gastric-bypass-surgery.html

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    You sound like the old timer JWs that can't move forward from the old teachings. Hey, do you also quote stuff from when TV was black and white? When we used typewriters? When computers were the size of entire rooms? Gotta update your information library, I tell you!

    Um, the Borg hasn't updated/changed this policy, DY. Unless and until there is an official change in doctrine, the doctrine stands, no matter when the last mention of it was. And by the way, gluttony is in the brand new elder's book as a DF-able offense. Maybe it is YOU who needs to update your information library.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Aw, rats....

    I thought that you'd found that "Questions from Readers" comment that I'd heard about, in one of the 2008 Watchtowers....

    Supposedly, a "Question" arose about whether a JW could be - ahem, "lovingly disciplined" - for being overweight...

    But my sources couldn't FIND the blasted thing...

    Rats, rats rats...

    Wish someone could find THAT item...

    Zid

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Zid, are you talking about this 9/15/08 Watchtower Study Article?

    “Never

    BecomeWeighed

    Down”

    12

    What else can we do to resist the spirit of the world? When Jesus admonished his disciples to “keep awake,” he had just warned them of some specific dangers. “Pay attention to yourselves,” he said, “that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you as a snare.”—Luke 21:34, 35.

    13

    Think about that warning. Did Jesus condemn the enjoyment of food and drink? No! He was aware of Solomon’s words: “I have come to know that there is nothing better for [the sons of mankind] than to rejoice and to do good during one’s life; and also that every man should eat and indeed drink and see good for all his hard work. It is the gift of God.” (Eccl. 3:12, 13) Yet, Jesus knew that the spirit of the world promotes a lack of self-control in those areas.

    14

    How can we be sure that the world’s spirit has not poisoned our senses as to the dangers of overeating or heavy drinking? We might ask ourselves: ‘How do I react upon reading counsel in the Bible or in our publications about gluttony? Am I inclined to dismiss this admonition as irrelevant or extreme, perhaps offering excuses or justification for my ways? What is my view of the advice about alcohol, using it—if at all—in moderation and definitely avoiding “drunken bouts”? Do I minimize such advice, feeling that it for some reason does not apply to me? If others express concern about my drinking, do I become defensive or angry? Do I encourage others to downplay such Bible counsel?’ Yes, a person’s attitude is a gauge as to whether he is succumbing to the world’s spirit.—Compare Romans 13:11-14.

    [Footnote]

    Gluttony is a mental attitude, one marked by greedy or excessive indulgence. Thus, it is determined, not by someone’s size, but by his attitude toward food. A person may be of normal size, or even be thin, and yet be a glutton. On the other hand, in some cases being overweight is the result of an ailment, or hereditary factors may contribute to obesity. A key issue is whether a person, whatever his or her weight, is excessively greedy as regards eating.—See “Questions From Readers” in the November 1, 2004, issue of The

    Watchtower.

    13

    Think about that warning. Did Jesus condemn the enjoyment of food and drink? No! He was aware of Solomon’s words: “I have come to know that there is nothing better for [the sons of mankind] than to rejoice and to do good during one’s life; and also that every man should eat and indeed drink and see good for all his hard work. It is the gift of God.” (Eccl. 3:12, 13) Yet, Jesus knew that the spirit of the world promotes a lack of self-control in those areas.

    14

    How can we be sure that the world’s spirit has not poisoned our senses as to the dangers of overeating or heavy drinking? We might ask ourselves: ‘How do I react upon reading counsel in the Bible or in our publications about gluttony? Am I inclined to dismiss this admonition as irrelevant or extreme, perhaps offering excuses or justification for my ways? What is my view of the advice about alcohol, using it—if at all—in moderation and definitely avoiding “drunken bouts”? Do I minimize such advice, feeling that it for some reason does not apply to me? If others express concern about my drinking, do I become defensive or angry? Do I encourage others to downplay such Bible counsel?’ Yes, a person’s attitude is a gauge as to whether he is succumbing to the world’s spirit.—Compare Romans 13:11-14.

    [Footnote]

    Gluttony is a mental attitude, one marked by greedy or excessive indulgence. Thus, it is determined, not by someone’s size, but by his attitude toward food. A person may be of normal size, or even be thin, and yet be a glutton. On the other hand, in some cases being overweight is the result of an ailment, or hereditary factors may contribute to obesity. A key issue is whether a person, whatever his or her weight, is excessively greedy as regards eating.—See “Questions From Readers” in the November 1, 2004, issue of The

    Watchtower.

    [Footnote]

    Gluttony is a mental attitude, one marked by greedy or excessive indulgence. Thus, it is determined, not by someone’s size, but by his attitude toward food. A person may be of normal size, or even be thin, and yet be a glutton. On the other hand, in some cases being overweight is the result of an ailment, or hereditary factors may contribute to obesity. A key issue is whether a person, whatever his or her weight, is excessively greedy as regards eating.—See “Questions From Readers” in the November 1, 2004, issue of The

    Watchtower.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    And the 11/1/04 WT Questions From Readers (note that like the 2008 one, this one references an earlier WT):

    Questions

    From

    Readers

    How

    doestheChristiancongregationview

    gluttony?

    God’s Word condemns both drunkenness and gluttony as behavior that is incompatible with serving God. Therefore, the Christian congregation regards a confirmed glutton in the same manner as it views a habitual drunkard. Neither a drunkard nor a glutton can be part of the Christian congregation.

    Proverbs 23:20, 21 states: “Do not come to be among heavy drinkers of wine, among those who are gluttonous eaters of flesh. For a drunkard and a glutton will come to poverty, and drowsiness will clothe one with mere rags.” At Deuteronomy 21:20, we read about a “stubborn and rebellious” individual, who deserved to be put to death under the Mosaic Law. According to this verse, two characteristics of that rebellious and unrepentant individual were that he was “a glutton and a drunkard.” Clearly, in ancient Israel, gluttony was viewed as an unacceptable practice for those who desired to serve God.

    What, though, constitutes a glutton, and what do the Christian Greek Scriptures say about this topic? A glutton is defined as “one given habitually to greedy and voracious eating and drinking.” Thus, for one thing, gluttony is a form of greed, and God’s Word tells us that “greedy persons” are the sort of people who will not inherit God’s Kingdom. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10; Philippians 3:18, 19; 1 Peter 4:3) In addition, when the apostle Paul warned Christians against practicing “the works of the flesh,” he mentioned “drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these.” (Galatians 5:19-21) Overeating often accompanies drunken bouts and revelries. Moreover, gluttony certainly is included in Paul’s expression “and things like these.” As with the other “works of the flesh,” a Christian who is widely known for his gluttony and who stubbornly refuses to change his greedy behavior ought to be removed from the congregation.—1 Corinthians 5:11, 13.

    Although God’s Word places a drunkard on the same level as a glutton, the former is much easier to identify than the latter. The signs of drunkenness are usually quite visible. However, determining the point at which an individual becomes a confirmed glutton is much harder because it cannot be determined simply by outward appearance. Therefore, handling situations in this area of concern requires great care and discernment on the part of the elders in the congregation.

    For example, obesity may be a sign of gluttony, but that is not always the case. One’s being overweight may be the result of an ailment. Hereditary factors may also contribute to obesity. We should also keep in mind that obesity is a physical condition, while gluttony is a mental attitude. Obesity is defined as “a condition characterized by excessive bodily fat,” whereas gluttony is “greedy or excessive indulgence.” Thus, gluttony is not determined by someone’s size but by his attitude toward food. A person may be of normal size or may even be thin and yet be a glutton. Furthermore, what is viewed as the ideal weight or shape varies considerably from place to place.

    What are signs of gluttony? A glutton routinely shows a lack of restraint, even gorging himself on food to the point of feeling very uncomfortable or becoming sick. His lack of self-control indicates that he has no real concern about the reproach he brings upon Jehovah and the good reputation of His people. (1 Corinthians 10:31) On the other hand, a person who overeats on a few occasions would not automatically be viewed as a “greedy person.” (Ephesians 5:5) Nevertheless, in the spirit of Galatians 6:1, such a Christian might need help. Paul states: “Brothers, even though a man takes some false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness.”

    Why is the Bible’s counsel to avoid excessive eating especially important today? Because, particularly regarding our day, Jesus warned: “Pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you as a snare.” (Luke 21:34, 35) Avoiding overindulgence in food is one important way to shun a spiritually damaging life-style.

    Moderation is a Christian virtue. (1 Timothy 3:2, 11) Therefore, Jehovah will surely help all those who earnestly seek to apply the Bible’s counsel on moderate eating and drinking habits.—Hebrews 4:16.

    [Footnote]

    See “Questions From Readers” in the May 1, 1986, issue of The

    Watchtower.

  • Listener
    Listener

    Watchtower 11/1 2004 HowdoestheChristiancongregationview

    gluttony?

    God’s Word condemns both drunkenness and gluttony as behavior that is incompatible with serving God. Therefore, the Christian congregation regards a confirmed glutton in the same manner as it views a habitual drunkard. Neither a drunkard nor a glutton can be part of the Christian congregation.

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