To all lurking JW elders

by Mickey mouse 57 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  LUKEWARM

  .

  Welcome to the forum CuriousConfused!
  
  I also resigned recently...
  
  IMHO the biggest problem is the way the WTS demonises apostates and never elaborates as to what the disagreements are.
  
  I never gave this much thought - was raised a witness and it seemed to me that there was enough "truth" there to keep it all together. Always wondered though, why the WTS was so paranoid about apostates - after all if we have the "truth," it should be able to stand up to anything that opposers throw up against it.
  
  A while ago I discovered this board, and read some of the opposing views which immediately made sense to me. The more I read here the more aware I became of the legitimate issues the WTS needs to face...
  
  
  Elder dissasociation letter - http://newsblaze.com/story/20081209054218zzzz.nb/topstory.html

  Jensen blood letters (an elder corresponding with the WTS over 5 years on the blood issue) http://www.ajwrb.org/watchtower/index.shtml

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/72358/1/This-Good-News-of-the-Kingdom-is-NOT-Jesus-Gospel

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/169775/1/time3d360-days-7-times3d2520-days-2520-days3d2520-365-day-per-year-years

  As mentioned by others, I also recommend you read Ray Franz's two outstanding books:
  
  (1) Crisis of Conscience, and
  (2) In Search of Christian Freedom.
  
  These books have had a profound impact on me - both can be purchased in book form or downloadable as PDF's (for privacy) at this address:
  
  
  http://www.commentarypress.com/Publication/English.html

  Ray was a governing body member of Jehovah's Witnesses for over nine years- a very sincere and humble man who remained a devout Christian until his recent passing. His insights are simply invaluable for anybody wanting to examine the JW religion in an honest and complete light.
  
  Also, can I recommend some research our very own poster 'Mary' has compiled as a PDF document. I found this information extremely valuable in examining issues the WTS needs to confront:

  http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/bible/mary-s-project-an-analysis-of-jehovah-s-witness-doctrine.html

  Please be honest with yourself and consider the opposing arguments - at the very least, examining all sides will ensure you are informed about the issues of contention
  
  Look forward to more of your posts
  
  Best wishes
  
  Lukewarm

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• 

  streets76

  CC, the truth is you are already an atheist for the most part (Zeus, anyone?), there's just one deity you are still clinging to. That's ok. Read some philosophy, some Dawkins, some Hitchens, some Harris.
• 

  yknot

  I know that many endorse 'apostate' literature or Mr. Hassan's books.....

  But may I humbly submit that a person can become knowledgable about the WTS by reading WTS publications and still keep in harmony with Sept 2007 KM's Question Box........

  http://www.archive.org/details/WatchTowerBibleandTractSocietyofPennsylvaniaWatchTowerpubs_0

  http://www.a2z.org/wtarchive/archive.htm#magazines

  Poster Chasson has a very nice collection as well - http://www.wtarchive.org/deposit/

  BTW CuriousConfused you have a 'PM' (private message) ......please click the envelop in the right hand corner next to your username. From there click on the message 'Howdy' - if you get an error message, hit the back button and reselect message again......cheers!
• 

  curiousconfused

  Ynot - you have a PM
• 

  familycomesfirst4

  Curiousconfused,

  I mostly lurk because so many echo my thoughts, but I just wanted to add my two centavos on a few things.

  Others have said they are still involved 'pseudo-like' because of family. I'm in the same boat. For me, it's to allow time for my spouse to adjust to these 'new' thoughts and feelings of mine, and also to allow the necessary time to see things from a different perspective and promote precious dialogue we both crave in our marriage.

  Also, I didn't have to subscribe to every thought, comment, or way of thinking on this board to find it helpful. The fact that there can be a public difference of opinion, and not be ostracized if one keeps it, is something one (read: I) could never truly get within the organization, or even a hardline JW family.

  With that said there has been quite a few nuggets of wisdom on this board that I have found more than helpful. Let alone the links to various sites and free pdf downloads of older material I can't find at the Kingdom Hall or WT Library CD.

  I find comfort that a few 'up the ladder' are here, too.
• 

  Little Imp

  I think Jah1914 has probably hit the nail on the head. There probably isn't one religion that is 100% correct. It is all down to interpretation.

  The most major thing that put me of JWs was that they would preach untruths about other religions from the platform. Most listening, if they were either born ins or hadn't attended church before they joined the witnesses would be unaware of the inaccuracy of some of the statements.

  In my opinion no Christian would include in part of their preaching slanderous statements about other religions - it is not Christ like behaviour at all. They should concentrate on getting what they are doing right, i.e. attending to the plank in their own eye.

  Furthermore, surely just treating others how one would wish to be treated comes above everything else if one is living a Christian life. Being a Christian is liviing every second as one not just when mixing with one's own kind.

  Everyone on this site can quote eloquently about what scriptures and verses we should be using etc. I only attended the KH for six years so am nowhere near as conversant but I can simply tell by someone's behaviour as to whether it is in harmony with what God would want for his people.

  I KNOW that it is certainly not Christian to shun people so that they sometimes commit suicide, or that if people leave they may never see members of their families again or that spending more times knocking on doors or attending more meetings than others makes you a better Christian. Anyone can do those things to LOOK like a Christian but it is meaningless.

  When I worked in Central London I was amazed at just how many volunteered from the various churches each night to give out soup and sandwiches to the homeless, they really got out there and helped the needy just a Jesus wanted us all to do.
• 

  hasmat

  I think these scriptures can be applicable to what is happening to religion in general : this is prophecy;

  Isaiah 28:7-13

  7 And even these reel with wine, and stagger with strong drink; the priest and the prophet reel with strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they stagger with strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

  8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

  9 Whom will he teach knowledge? and whom will he make to understand the message? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts?

  10 For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little.

  11 Nay, but by men of strange lips and with another tongue will he speak to this people;

  12 to whom he said, This is the rest, give ye rest to him that is weary; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

  13 Therefore shall the word of Jehovah be unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little

  that they may go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. "

  Amos 8:11
  "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord Jehovah, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of Jehovah."

  Revelation 6:8
  And I saw, and behold, a pale horse: and he that sat upon him, his name was Death; and Hades followed with him. And there was given unto them authority over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with famine, and with death, and by the wild beasts of the earth."
• 

  xcellxior

  Nice to meet you CuriousConfused .

  Glad you are allowing yourself to read some of the posts on this board. A lot of the posts you will find are of people in the same circumstances as yourself.

  I served as an MS for several years but for me the trigger event was when I tried to understand the blood policy. The more research you do into it, the less sense it makes. The elders in my cong were woefully uneducated about it and this shocked me. I could not believe that a loving God would allow mistakes to continue for years (killing many innocent people). I could not accept how organ transplants were allowed, then not allowed, then allowed etc. in between brothers+sisters, even children dying.

  I came to the conclusion that the Governing body are blood guility, they have never admitted getting it wrong EVER. Once I accepted the this to be true it was like a cascading effect and other "truths" came crumbling apart.

  One thing I learnt when I left the organization is that you don't need to be a JW to be a spiritual person, you don't need to be a JW to love a God. Despite what you have been taught there are many genuine Christians... there are many genuine non christians as well.