Why I think the Borg will have another enemy soon.

by Mindchild 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • cellomould
    cellomould

    This is an awesome thread, Mind!

    I am intrigued by stuff like this. These types of evolutionary algorithms will be extremely powerful when computing power goes kaboom sometime in the next decade, for example, the realization of molecular or quantum computing.

    Mindchild, are the typos yours or the computer program's? I don't mean to be picky. Just curious because once, for example, the subject needed to be plural: "Hart had often said—to other and to himself—" Italics added

    Still this is an awesome demonstration. Keep us posted if you hear about more uses of these algorithms.

    One thing that really interests me is the use of cellular automata. I can't seem to find too much info on what is new and sexy in that field, however.

    If I do, I will let you know.

    Cellomould

    "In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ

  • Scully
    Scully

    mindchild:

    by 2020, we will have personal companions . . . that will never forget anything, and that will surely remind us of when our perceptions of reality (i.e. belief systems) don’t match the consensual world

    I've always said "everyone needs a wife"

    But can they cook??

    BTW, I noticed a few typos and grammatical errors too. Looks like super-computers, for now at least, still need proof-readers.

    Love, Scully

    It is not persecution for an informed person
    to expose a certain religion as being false.
    - WT 11/15/63

    A religion that teaches lies cannot be true. - WT 12/1/91

  • Hmmm
    Hmmm

    I'm with SYN on this one.

    Performing as many, or more, raw computations as the human brain will not automatically give them that elusive power of intuition--the ability to imagine, and see possibilities or reach conclusions that are not pre-programmed.

    Hmmm

  • TR
    TR

    Fascinating subject! The world of sci-fi seems to ever progress to the realm of reality. Very cool stuff.

    TR

    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    --Benjamin Franklin, 1759

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    Extremely interesting post MindChild! I love this stuff and thx alot for sharing. Awesome!

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    I am curious as to whether, no matter how 'clever' they might be, whether computers in my lifetime will ever be genuinely creative.

    Look at LotR by Tolkien. That would be a pretty cute set of algorithms.

    And also, with evolutionary algorithms, the success is rated by results. With bridges that's easy. But how do you rate a story subjectively?

    One thing I am fascinated by; the first application by a computer to be declared a person.

    If computing power and programming does make computers intelligent, to what degree? Will a computer ever be capable of developing a desire for self-determination? Maybe, even if they are programmed to be ahppy little slaves, they will be so bright they decide they don't want to... er... live that way?

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

  • Mindchild
    Mindchild

    Saint Satan, I'm sure that the model you suggest is going to be tried but so will the goal of making a conscious machine. Humans are just that way, they are going to try all the possibilites. Actually your post reminded me a bit of a famous science fiction writer (Asimov?) who came up with the "laws of robotics" so that they would never hurt a human.

    D wiltshire, right now A.I. is being used in many applications, including corporate profits. It will be interesting to see what happens when our mind children also have free will and pain.

    2SYN, I don't know how much you have been keeping up with A.I. but it is a whole different ball game these days and the paradigm has changed dramatically in the way to go about making intelligent machines. There is NO programing now. Neural nets learn to see for themselves by interaction with the real world, computers learn to walk by themselves (see Honda's incredible new walking robots for an example of this, they can even walk up and down stairs and look remarkably human doing so). Thier intelligence is still small in terms of direct comparisons with biological systems but are growing rapidly. They will reach human levels in a much shorter time than people expect.

    The big thing though that divides the A.I. community is if they will be able to gain "conciousness." Some people, perhaps such as yourself, believe that more is needed than the hardware or wetware. I've seen arguements on both sides and I don't think the jury is in yet. Even so, computers are heading in the direction of the quantum world. They have already done quantum computing and in another 10-30 years we may see a "chip" (probably won't look anything like conventional chips used in todays computers) that will be smaller than a pin head that will have more computational power than the human brain. Both fascinating and scary if you ask me.

    Cello, if there are typo's it is probably my own fault. I didn't run it through a spell checker. There are actually some cool programs I've used for cellular automata or sometimes called "artificial life." Some of those evolutionary algorhtims are pretty amazing as well, if nothing else they are quite entertaining.

    Scully, I actually wondered if a robot can cook and yes the Japanese have developed a few models that they have in commercial use in both homes for handicapped people and in some cafes. Before long, McDonald's won't be hiring j-dubs to cook their food any longer and maybe then I can get my Big Mac the way I like it. haha

    Hi Hmmm, yes just brute computational power doesn't mean intelligence. It is only the engine for the software of course. The software in this case is not the old programing style of expert systems in LISP or other AI languages but is self evolved. Will they be able to get to where they can pass the Turing test? Time will tell. If these stories are any indications though, it may be an interesting test indeed.

    Kind Regards,

    Skipper

  • JanH
    JanH

    The problem with creating artificial intelligence is that we don't really know what makes intelligence in the first place! In the early days when scientists were playing around with the idea of AI, many suggested that a machine that could play a decent game of chess would have to be intelligent. Today we know that any decent programmer with enough time on his hands can teach a computer to play chess, and that doesn't make it intelligent. Not even those systems that can beat any human at chess will be described as intelligent.

    In fact, what is consciousness is probably the only real challenge that science is currently far away from solving.

    Perhaps enormous computing power and sophisticated evolutionary algorithms will one day prove sufficient to create true articifical intelligence. Hopefully, we will know intelligence when we see it. But I will not bet that this is enough to create true AI.

    - Jan
    --
    The believer is happy. The doubter is wise.

  • fodeja
    fodeja
    No, Mindchild, these are just smart ALGORITHMS, not smart machines.

    Correct. AI has found its niches, but nowadays it's still far from creating anything that would be called "intelligence".

    GAs (which, by the way, aren't particularly new - John Holland came up with this stuff in the 1970/80s) have their uses, especially for optimisation problems. This, however:

    ...taught themselves how to read, understand the context, and write about what they learned.
    is quite a sensationalistic claim. "Understanding" the context, as in understanding the way we attribute to a human, is currently out of the question. There are very, very few advocates of strong AI left in the field, and they don't deliver a lot of promising results.

    Anyone remember ELIZA? This was one of the first programs to simulate something like intelligence, and it even fooled some intelligent people. Yet, it was an incredibly crude, rule-based piece of software.

    Thus, by 2020, we will have personal companions that can read an entire encyclopedia in a few seconds, that will never forget anything, and that will surely remind us of when our perceptions of reality (i.e. belief systems) don’t match the consensual world. In short, it will tell us (if we ask) that the Borg is full of it and it will offer proof for why this is the case. These computers will seldom make mistakes.
    I remember quite clearly that unbeatable chess computers and human-level translation engines were predicted for the 1970s. We may be approaching the chess computers, but even state-of-the-art automated translation is still quite crappy, which goes to show what the level of "understanding" language is today.

    I'm not saying that this cannot happen, but I'm saying that the stuff that's printed in popular magazines is quite far away from current research. Throwing more raw computing power at a problem doesn't magically generate the problem-solving capacities humans have.

    f.

  • JanH
    JanH

    Ah, fodeja, do I remember Eliza? It was fun to play around with it.

    Have a nice conversation with Eliza here: http://www-ai.ijs.si/eliza/eliza.html

    Yes, amazingly, a secretary (I think) of the guy who made the original Eliza program apparently thought it was real, and went a full round of psychotherapy with it. Perhaps it helped her?

    - Jan
    --
    The believer is happy. The doubter is wise.

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