It is a quandry , as we all know that an answer in the negative (or even not answering the question) is a killer. I think that the only response would be to say "look , this isn't something I want to discuss , both for my benefit & for yours." A real friend would accept that that there are areas in any friendship that are out of bounds or on a "don't ask , don't tell" basis. Sadly we all know that most friendships with JWs are usually conditional on mutual submission to the WTBTS.
JC question: Do you accept the FDS as God's organization?
by MrMonroe 50 Replies latest watchtower bible
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sd-7
This was one of the last questions asked of me at my judicial committee. I was disappointed, as I remembered Raymond Franz' retelling of how so many had been asked this same question in their own judicial committees.
The question seems to suggest what can only be termed idolatry. If the answer to this one question determines whether or not your worship of God is true, then inevitably, confessing the 'faithful slave' as 'God's organization' is being equated with accepting Jesus as the Christ--without it, by the elders' logic, your faith is useless. It really amounts to trusting in men as being anointed saviors, as being equal to Christ.
In the face of such a realization, my response was simple. "No. I don't think there is one." The elders decided to expel me. The chairman explained to me that I needed to be humbled. How to reconcile a lack of humility with the alternative of accepting the 'slave' as essentially an entity worthy of unquestioning faith on the same level as Christ is beyond me.
--sd-7
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Paralipomenon
I'm pretty sure there are multiple places where the society has stated that the FDS does not claim divine inspiration. With that as a reference, could the question be turned back to them "Without inspiration, how would Jehovah use imperfect humans to correctly deliver his message?"
I never got asked that question. Pity, I would have loved to hear an answer to that.
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Vanderhoven7
"Do you believe Jehovah is using the faithful and discreet slave as his organisation on earth?”
<<Franz reasoned: If it was so critical that people appreciate God had an organization on earth to which people had to be a member in order to survive Armageddon, wouldn't he have plainly stated it? (p. 453).>>
<<The question seems to suggest what can only be termed idolatry. If the answer to this one question determines whether or not your worship of God is true, then inevitably, confessing the 'faithful slave' as 'God's organization' is being equated with accepting Jesus as the Christ--without it, by the elders' logic, your faith is useless. It really amounts to trusting in men as being anointed saviors, as being equal to Christ. >>
LOL, the audacity of the GB....that faith in and love for Jesus Christ becomes totally secondary and useless if one does not accept the Emperor without clothes.
Vander
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Ding
That's the #1 question for the WTS, isn't it?
It's not about Jesus -- it's about THEM.
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MrMonroe
@Vanderhoven, sd7,
Quite true. On one of the talk pages at Wikipedia I asked a Witness to explain the basis on which people who have simply quit a religious denomination (JWs), but retained a belief in Christ, were dubbed "apostates" and shunned on the basis of 2 John 9,10 -- a scripture that refers to an individual who "does not remain in the teaching of the Christ". (He mumbled that it was the same thing, because JWs were true Christianity).
The Jerusalem Bible refers in those verses to an individual who "does not keep within the teaching of Christ but goes beyond it."
Isn't that precisely what the question about the FDS, and the subsequent shunning of those who deny it, is doing ... going beyond Christ's teaching?
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dogon
I was asked this about twice a year. I told them they were like the cops asking me go solve a case,, you have the gun you have the badge you do the foot work and don't ask me to give you the rope to hang me. When told that they are sorry for the way my life has gone, I respond that I am sorry to see the way their life has gone and I grieve for them. Throw the pittly party right back in their face. But the best way to live if leavt them all of them alone. Find new people who are not judgmental and forget the fools who are like the Westboro baptist church saying everyone is going to die and only the small band of idiots is saved. You can not win as reason does not exist in their world.
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Listener
SD-7 How to reconcile a lack of humility with the alternative of accepting the 'slave' as essentially an entity worthy of unquestioning faith on the same level as Christ is beyond me.
This issue does play on the conscience. But I wonder if there is a requirement to have trust and faith in the FDS? The bible says that children should be in subjection and obey their parents, a wife to her husband and all of us to Jesus and Jehovah. We are also required to have trust and faith in Jesus and Jehovah but we have not been told to have this same committment to anyone else. It may or may not exsist in our relationships with any person or organisation.
For instance, a child may be unlucky enough to have cruel and unjust parents but the requirement to obey them still exists and it certainly does show a lot of humility to accept this arrangement. But God does not require that child to trust or have faith in their parents and it is unlikely that they would. In this case they are not going against God's word.
If the org says that all JWs belong to them where is the biblical requirement that they trust or have faith in them?
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wobble
Don't start talking the Bible to the GB, that is like showing a cross covered in garlic to a vampire.
Anyway, they can re-write the scriptures any time they like, they have done it enough in the past, so if they cannot find any verses they can stretch, and words they can change the meanings of, they will just write some new stuff, and 7 million will swallow it. Evidently.
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Sayswho
- After following the advice below from the Bible as outlined in the w09 that also applies to the FDS...
- I DO NOT TRUST THEM!!! ---They lost my trust and respect---because of their failures, lies, and cover-ups
w09 5/11 Build Confidence in the Bible...
1 Build Confidence in the Bible
“All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight.”—2 Timothy 3:16.WHAT IS THE CHALLENGE? Many maintain that the Bible is nothing more than a book of human wisdom. Some believe that it is historically inaccurate. Others claim that the Bible’s counsel is impractical or out-of-date.
HOW CAN YOU OVERCOME THE CHALLENGE? Often, those who question the reliability or usefulness of the Bible have not investigated the matter for themselves.They merely repeat what others say. However, the Bible warns: “Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one considers his steps.”—Proverbs 14:15.
Instead of blindly accepting what others say, why not follow the example of the first-century Christians who lived in Beroea, in what is now northern Greece? They did not just accept what others told them. Rather, they had a reputation for “carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.” (Acts 17:11) Let us briefly consider two reasons why you can have confidence that the Bible is the inspired Word of God.
Sw