What "scripture is inspired of God?" (page 2)

streets76

Luke was inspired to write by God, that is a given <-- that's where you lost me

"The authors of these epistles used Paul's name, but they gave their own answers, which were in some cases at least, rather different to those given by Paul himself earlier on. It has to be said that they wittingly gave other answers than the purported author did before, because the new circumstances required new answers. To them (these authors) it was of vital importance to win the theological struggles of the time and for this reason they made these epistles seem to originate from Paul. To lend credibility to the authenticity of their epistles, certain details were inserted that should support this claim. In this way, they could achieve their purpose, i e that their epistles would get authority in the churches."

PDF: http://www.hts.org.za/index.php/HTS/article/download/683/584

Pseudepigraphic Paulines in the New Testament, Eduard Verhoef

steve2

A simple question with an equally simple answer:

What "scripture is inspired of God?"

Any scripture is inspired of God that advocates the following: slavery, genocide, the stoning of "wrongdoers", the subservience of women, the destruction of most of humankind and the need to obey God's representatives on earth.

Because it is so hard to control people, you need a document that says, "God commands you to do these things". The Holy Bible is an embarrassment of ancient views and beliefs. While some view the New Testament as an improvement over the Old, the mentality is the same: Obey God's people on earth. For example, Paul gave the early Christians hell because they dared question his authority.

Believers in inspired texts need to leave their minds outsider the door before they come inside to read the disgustingly violent and blood-thristy content of "inspired" texts.

wobble

I think Agonus is right about Hitch Hikers Guide, after all, it does tell us what the meaning of life is, but everything ever written ?

I ain't so sure about some of Dan Browns stuff.

agonus

wobble...

42!!!

AGuest

When Paul told Timothy that "All scripture is inspired of God..." what "scripture" was he talking about?

He was speaking of Moses, the Psalms, and the Prophets, including Baruch, Enoch, and others, dear MS (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!).

Did he have the ego to include his own personal letters to the congregations?

Generally, he did not, except in one or two brief places where he said the Holy Spirit was guiding him.

Did he also mean to include the books and letters not written at the time that the Catholic church would choose for its canon a couple hundred years later?

He didn't... and they weren't.

If you believe so, what is your evidence for that believing that?

Because he wasn't a blasphemer, and it is blasphemy to attribute to the Holy Spirit something he hasn't done/isn't responsible for. For example, the Holy Spirit does not lie and is the same today, tomorrow, and yesterday. Yet, Paul told the Corinthians congregation to judge one another, which caused great divisions within that congregation and a separation between Paul and the Apostles. When he finally DID listen to the Holy Spirit, Paul told the Romans to STOP judging one another.

People (1) forget that Paul was a Pharisee and so, like some of us who can't easily "shake" the "bad habits" learned while in the WTBTS, didn't immediately leave off from his Pharisaical practices, and (2) assume, incorrectly, that once he was chosen he immediately knew ALL things. The Holy Spirit, however, LEADS US INTO all truth, dear one; he does not drop us it onto us... or us into it. That's why my Lord said to the 12, "I have many things to tell you but YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO BEAR THEM, YET." Thus, the Body of Christ are given food... "at the PROPER time." Paul, too, was "fed" in this way.

If it is a matter of faith, upon what "accurate knowledge" is that faith based?

I am not sure what you mean by this question, other than to say "accurate knowledge" that is the truth... because it was received FROM the Truth.

ALL OF IT.

This is true, dear Agonus (peace to you, as well!), but perhaps misleading. If dear MS was talking about scripture, literally, then you are right: ALL scripture is inspired of God. If, however, you... or he... meant what parts of the Bible are inspired of God, then the answer would be "the parts that are scripture." For not all of the Bible IS scripture and thus, inspired.

What does "Scripture" actually MEAN? "That which is written".

It does; however, it refers to CERTAIN writings of what is written. Writings that God TOLD men to write, as well as WHAT to write. Otherwise, it isn't "scripture."

Luke was inspired to write by God, that is a given,

Ah, dear PSacto (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!)... this is an error. Luke's writings weren't not inspired; they were commissioned.

but he openly admits that what he wrote was based on what he knew from different sources AND his own knowledge.

Which means he wasn't inspired.

ALL "scripture" really IS inspired, dear ones. The problem is that the word/term "inspired" does not mean TODAY what it meant which such writings were penned. Today, the word means that one is "moved" or "compelled" to do something. Whether it be write, help, go, whatever. However, when the scriptures were written, the word/term meant that the writer... was IN SPIRIT: the writer was transformed INTO THE SPIRIT... when given what to write and told to write. Which is how John was able to receive the Revelation (Revelation 4:2).

Flesh and blood cannot enter into the kingdom of the heavens - thus, Moses, the Prophets, the Psalmists, and John... has to be transformed... so as to BE in spirit... in order to see and hear the things they did.

The transliteration got lost when the scribes, who hadn't a CLUE what it meant to BE in the spirit... assumed the word/term meant solely to either be "led" by the Holy Spirit... or that God Himself "breathed" the words. Both of these ARE true and correct; however, MANY are led by the Holy Spirit, including me, your servant... and all of what I share comes from the Word (mouth) of the Father. Yet, it is not "scripture."

If you are one who needs to see it in writing, however, Luke would have the greatest insight and so I would refer you to the following:

"Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; but they were kept from recognizing him.

He asked them, "What are you discussing together as you walk along?"

They stood still, their faces downcast. One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, "Are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?"

"What things?" he asked.

"About [Jesus] of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning but didn't find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus."

He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. But they urged him strongly, "Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over." So he went in to stay with them.

When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together and saying, "It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon." Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.

While they were still talking about this, [Jesus] himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."

They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence.

He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." Then he opened their minds so they could understandthe Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." Luke 24:13-19

I hope this helps and bid you all peace!

A slave of Christ,

SA

shepherd

Since there is no God, inspired obviously canot mean it is his exact word. However, it is inspired of God in that the theofantasy is its main theme.

There are many bands that say they were inspired by the Beatles, but that did not mean Lennon and McCartney wrote all subsequent material themselves.....

whereami

Anyone care to address this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFGSgQMQzRk

Mad Sweeney

So the consensus is that the New Testament cannot be taken as "inspired of God" based on the letter to Timothy, correct?

This leads me to a follow-up question, then. Since the NT wasn't compiled and approved by the Roman church until hundreds of years later, upon what basis can we believe that it is "inspired of God?" Hadn't apostasy set in to the Christian church by that time? Why should those men be trusted?

(Note for Agonus - I'd like to discuss your first post in this thread, but not here/now - maybe I'll PM or start another thread)

PSacramento

Luke was inspired to write by God, that is a given <-- that's where you lost me

My answer will also answer Shelby's point from above.

Inspired by God doesn't mean the same then as we want it or take it to me NOW, we keep forgetting that.

Luke was inspired By God to write, inspired by his love for God and Jesus and that love inspired him to write what he knew about Jesus's work, not only based on what he was told and saw, but by organizing the works he had access to.

Inspired by God didn't mean "God speaking via the HS through Luke", no more than it would mean that about the current apologists that write about Christianity.

I think we are confusing "inspired by God" with "The inspired WORD of God".