How does Kinnewick man (and other's like him) fit into your belief system?
If you could ask one question to an active JW to get them to open their mind about their beliefs, what would it be?
by Franklin Massey 56 Replies latest jw friends
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undercover
I haven't read all the responses, though I think it was Pirata that said that there was no universal question, which I think is true. Each person has different values and thought processes. A question that might get one person to think might go right over the next person's head as inconsequential to their beliefs.
But, having said that...
The one thing that has had more success than anything was to ask them if they really believe that they may not die...that they have the hope of living through Armageddon.
Now, even if most dubs today don't really live as if Armageddon is imminent, they still profess this belief that the end is near. They just don't think about it beyond what they read in the WT or hear from the platform. But if you force the issue...get them to commit verbally and aloud to that belief you can then basically embarrass them for being delusional.
You can compare them to previous generations of JWs who had the same belief and are now dead. If available, show them the 84 WT cover about the 'generation not passing away'. Even if they retort with 'new light' bullshit, you can remind them that at that time, all dubs accepted and believed just what that cover illustrated. Now those people are dead. The end didn't come. And on top of that the doctrine has kept changing... but the one constant is that Armageddon is imminent.
I point blank told one person that to believe that you may never die is delusional. Everyone dies. No one in the history of mankind has ever cheated death. And you think you're in some special group that will? It is the upmost of delusional beliefs. If you believe in son of god/god-man Jesus, he died, fer Chrissakes. If you wanna believe in God or Jesus or Allah or ET...that's pretty delusional but to think that you won't grow old and die is really out of touch with reality. At least main stream Christians and Muslims face death. They think they're reward is after life. JWs aren't even that practical. They're above death. They're going to live forever. I had to point out that we're a hundred years into JWs believing that their generation will live forever...and yet here we still are, living in the world and dying with the world.
I actually saw a little light go off in one person's eyes as I preached my 'living forever is delusional' sermon which gave me hope for their further ability to think for themselves.
Sometimes I have to get worked up into a Bill Maher anti-religious mode in order to get in their face about it. Usually I'm non-confrontational. I rarely look for an argument or debate with my JW family. I've learned that it doesn't work, but on the occasion where they try to corner me, I come back with fire in my eyes. I try to remember what Bill Maher actually said in Religulous: "Rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves." I respect peoples freedom of religion or right to believe as they want, including JWs...I don't look to argue and will let well enough alone if not bothered. But if they push too hard on me, I will retaliate and will use the delusional angle to get my point across.
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Franklin Massey
Lion Cask said,
If the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is not what it represents itself to be, would you want to know?
..and my head exploded.
That's pretty incredible. The timing would have to be right to ask it but, wow, what a great question.
Undercover, I love that quote by Bill Maher too. I especially like the second part (below). I have it bookmarked. He said, "Rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a terrible price."
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Palimpsest
Today's question for them would be:
"How is it that the Governing Body tells you to trust in modern science to help save your life through bloodless surgery, yet you refuse to believe in science about virtually anything else?"
I guess it would depend on my mood and what was bothering me on that particular day. Today, I'm thinking about the whole "the world is 6,000 years old" thing and just shaking my head.
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Franklin Massey
Nice, Palimpsest. Timely and straight to the point. "How is it that the Governing Body tells you to trust in modern science to help save your life through bloodless surgery, yet you refuse to believe in science about virtually anything else?"
From what I understand, the most current story of the earth's creation from the Society is that the actual planet has possibly been here as long as scientists say (billions of years, perhaps?) but humans have only been here for 6,000 years. Again, your argument points out the obvious problem. Why agree with science in dating the planet earth, but not agree with science when they put dates on something that in theory, should be much easier to accurately date - like early man?
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Lion Cask
One of the telling hallmarks of fundamentalist belief systems is their propensity to embrace science that either conforms to, supports or is not otherwise in conflict with their established dogma. However, when science appears to contradict or disprove said dogma, it is automatically rejected out of hand. It does not conform to The Truth, therefore there cannot be any doubt that it is false.
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justmom
Since this organization prides itself on teaching ones "You can live FOREVER in paradise on earth?...............
How many times is paradise earth mentioned in the bible?
Answer.................... ZERO!
justmom