Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-16-11 WT Study (BAPTISM)

I grew up during the late 60’s and early 70’s in a family with a non-jw father and a shaky jw mother. I had to face baptism, did I do it because all my peers were doing, did I do it because 1975 was so close and people not baptized as jws would die eternally. I have to admit that I did not get family pressure partly because my mother really had no status in the congregation, she was a woman and married to a non-jw.

Do teenage children of jws “hold back” without the Damocles sword of 1975 over their head? Do parents threaten to kick out their children that do not get baptized? Do jw parents try to buy their children with cars, trips, a free ride if they do and pioneer?

START OF ARTICLE

1, 2. For you to be successful as you grow toward

adulthood, what do you need to have?

I F YOU were going to travel on an unfamiliar

trail, you might want to take along a

map and a compass. The map would help

you to identify your current position and aid

in plotting out a course. The compass would

allow you to orient yourself. However, both

the map and the compass would be of little

use if you did not know where you were

headed. To avoid wandering aimlessly, you

would need a clearly defined destination.

COMMENTS

Map---WT pubs or bible

Compass—Bible?

If map = bible, does GPS = WT-CD?

How many people even know what a compass looks like let alone how it works?

2 You face a similar situation as you grow

toward adulthood. You have available both

a reliable map and a compass. The Bible is a

map that can help you to know which path

to choose. (Prov. 3:5, 6) If properly trained,

your conscience can be a great help in keeping

you on the right course. (Rom. 2:15) It

can serve as a compass. For your life to be

successful, though, you also need to know

where you are headed. You need clearly defined

goals.

COMMENTS

What does the WTS define as adulthood? Marriage—18 or older, driving—16 or older, sign contract—18 or older but baptism, as young as 6

“properly” trained by whom? WTS or bible?

3. What benefits of having goals does Paul refer to

at 1 Corinthians 9:26?

3 The apostle Paul summed up the benefits

of setting goals and endeavoring to

reach them when he wrote: “The way I am

running is not uncertainly; the way I am directing

my blows is so as not to be striking

the air.” (1 Cor. 9:26) If you have goals, you

can run with certainty. Soon, you will have

to make some major decisions regarding

worship, employment, marriage, and family,

to name a few. At times, you may feel as

though you are facing a maze of options.

But if you plot out your course ahead of

time, basing your decisions on the truths

and principles found in God’s Word, you

will not be tempted to head in the wrong direction.—

2 Tim. 4:4, 5.

COMMENTS

Who sets our goals?

Who decides worship, employment, marriage, family? Parents, WTS, Bible?

4, 5. (a) What can happen if you do not set goals

for yourself? (b) Why should your choices be governed

by a desire to please God?

4 If you do not set goals for yourself, your

peers and teachers are likely to influence

you to do what they feel is right for you. Of

course, even if you have clear goals, some

may still offer their opinions. When listening

to their suggestions, ask yourself,

‘Would the goals they mention help me to

remember my Creator while I am young or

would they distract me from doing so?’

—Read Ecclesiastes 12:1.

COMMENTS

Have parents told children they must regular pioneer, go to Bethel, not go to college, etc. Has it been the child’s choice?

5 Why should your choices in life be governed

by a desire to please God? One reason

is that Jehovah gave us every good thing we

have. (Jas. 1:17) Really, everyone owes Jehovah

a debt of gratitude. (Rev. 4:11) What better

way could there be for you to show your

appreciation than keeping Jehovah in mind

when you set goals? Let us consider what

goals are worth attaining and what you

must do to reach them.

COMMENTS

Please God or parents and WTS?

Where is Jesus in this equation?

What Goals Can You Set?

6. What fundamental goal could you set, and why?

6 As mentioned in the preceding article, a

fundamental goal that you can set is to

prove to yourself that what is said in the Bible

is true. (Rom. 12:2; 2 Cor. 13:5) Your

peers may believe in evolution or in various

false religious doctrines because others have

told them that this is what they should believe.

However, you can rise above such

thinking when it comes to your own beliefs.

Remember, Jehovah wants you to serve him

with your whole mind. (Read Matthew 22:

36, 37.) Our heavenly Father wants you to

build your faith on evidence.—Heb.11:1.

COMMENTS

Prove that what is said in the Bible is true or what is in the WT publications is true?

What beliefs has the WTS had that they have changed and then returned to the previous belief?

Example: SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES (Romans 13:1,2)

Up to 1929: secular authorities

1929 to 1962: God and Jesus

1962 to present: secular authorities

Was the Bible wrong or the WTS?

7, 8. (a) Setting what short-term goals will help

you to strengthen your faith? (b) What will you

experience as you reach some of your short-term

goals?

7 To help strengthen your faith, why not

set some short-term goals? One goal could

be to pray each day. To help keep your

prayers fresh and specific, you could make a

mental or a written note of a day’s specific

events that you want to include in your

prayers. Be sure to mention not only the

challenges you faced but also the things you

enjoyed. (Phil. 4:6) Another goal is to read

the Bible each day. Did you know that if you

read about four pages a day, you will complete

the whole Bible in just one year?*

“Happy is the man . . . [whose] delight is in

the law of Jehovah,” states Psalm 1:1, 2,

“and in his law he reads in an undertone day

and night.”

*See The Watchtower, August 1, 2009, pages 15-18.

COMMENTS

Pray each day…if Jesus is only the mediator of the anointed, how does 1 Timothy 2:5 apply to non-anointed jws? Should you pray through Jesus?

***w75 7/1 p. 402 par. 8 Coming to the Hearer of Prayer***

To communicate readily with the heavenly Father, one must accept Christ Jesus as Lord. Peace with God can come only through the appointed way, the ransom provision by the Lord Jesus. (Matt. 20:28; 1 Tim. 2:5, 6) He is the provision for approach to God in prayer and reconciliation with him. Jesus rightly declared: “No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) He is the “helper” that plays a vital role in our having access to the Hearer of prayer. (1 John 2:1, 2) The way, therefore, to come to God is on the basis of Christ’s official services as high priest as well as the ransom he provided for mankind. Our asking in his name and coming to the Father is, therefore, in recognition of his office as God’s “Chief Agent of life.” No other intermediary is necessary in addressing our prayers to God.—Acts 3:15; John 14:13, 14; Heb. 10:19-22.

To help keep your

prayers fresh and specific, you could make a

mental or a written note of a day’s specific

events that you want to include in your

prayers.

So is this how prayers are arrived at at the KH? How is that possible when Brother Prayer Giver doesn’t find out until 60 seconds before the meeting starts? Or the brothers at the convention/assembly that obviously have a script/outline for the prayer?

8 A third short-term goal you could set is

that of preparing an answer for each congregation

meeting. At first, you may want

to read the answer or a scripture. Later,

you could have the goal of answering in

your own words. Really, each time you answer,

you are offering a gift to Jehovah.

(Heb. 13:15) Once you have reached some

of these goals, your confidence will grow, as

will your appreciation for Jehovah, and you

will be ready to set long-term goals.

Do you have

a goal of reading

the Bible daily?

COMMENTS

Preparing an answer…read it from the paragraph, look up a scripture or just the snippet in the paragraph? In your own words…I have seen adults just move the words around.

The book says

The paragraph says

The magazine says

9. If you are not yet a Kingdom publisher, what

long-term goals could you set for yourself?

9 What long-term goals could you set for

yourself? If you have not yet started to proclaim

the good news publicly, your long term

goal might be to become a Kingdom

publisher. Once you reach this honorable

goal, you will want to be regular and effective,

never missing a month of service. You

will also want to learn to use the Bible in the

ministry. As you do, you will probably discover

that you enjoy the preaching work

more. You could then increase the amount

of time you spend in the house-to-house

work or even endeavor to conduct a Bible

study. As an unbaptized publisher, what better

goal could you have than to qualify for

baptism and become a dedicated and baptized Witness

of Jehovah God?

COMMENTS

Set for yourself—or have the WTS set for you in this paragraph?

Become a Kingdom publisher—that’s right, Jesus never had the goal, but you must?

Must be “regular” (1 hour a month) and “effective” like the adults that never make return visits, never read the publications before going out, use the same presentation they have for the last 35 years?

Use the Bible—do you see adults do this?

Baptism—6 years old or ten or 12 or 14; how old do you parents want you to be to get married?

10, 11. What long-term goals can baptized youths

set for themselves?

10 If you are already a baptized servant of

Jehovah, here are some long-term goals you

can reach out for. You might occasionally

want to help congregations to preach in seldom

worked territory. You may also choose

to use your strength and good health in the

auxiliary or regular pioneer work. Tens of

thousands of happy pioneers will tell you

that full-time service is a rewarding way to

remember your Creator during your youth.

These are goals that you can achieve while

living at home. Your local congregation will

also benefit from your reaching them.

COMMENTS

Baptized servant of Jehovah—but not a Christian witness of Jesus as Acts 1:8 says?

Why are those congregations not working their territory? How often and effectively are the territories worked in your congregation? Can you find out?

Pioneering—yes, mom and dad will let you live free at home, provide a car, pay for nice trips, are you preparing to be able to support a family?

11 Other long-term goals could lead you

beyond your home congregation. For example,

you could plan to serve in another area

or country where the need is greater. You

might want to help construct Kingdom

Halls or branch facilities in foreign lands.

You may even be able to enter Bethel service

or become a missionary. Of course, the first

milestone you will need to reach before you

can move on to most of the long-term goals

mentioned here is that of getting baptized.

If you are not yet baptized, consider what is

involved in reaching this milestone in your

life.

COMMENTS

Serve in another country…how do you pay for this, parents pony up?

So when do you learn construction skills…or does the WTS take people with no skills?

Reaching the Goal of Baptism

12. For what reasons do some get baptized, and

why are these not sufficient?

12 How would you describe the purpose of

baptism? Some might think that it is to protect

them from giving in to sin. Others

may feel that they should get baptized because

their peers have been immersed. Other

young ones may want to please their parents.

However, baptism is not a contract that

restrains you from doing things that you

would secretly like to do; nor should you get

baptized in response to pressure from others.

You should get baptized when you are

fully aware of what being one of Jehovah’s

Witnesses involves and when you are sure

that you are ready and willing to take on this

responsibility.—Eccl. 5:4, 5.

COMMENTS

SOME think that it is to protect them from giving into sin….a teaching of the WTS.

OTHERS …. Peers have been immersed—pressure to get baptized from parents when all your peers are baptized

Being “one of Jehovah’s Witnesses” or a Christian? Did Jesus’ followers get baptized as jws?

Remember once you are baptized…you can be disfellowshipped and have all your family and friends totally shun you.

13. Why should you get baptized?

13 One reason to undergo baptism is that

Jesus commissioned his followers to “make

disciples . . . baptizing them. ”He also set an

example by getting baptized. (Read Matthew

28:19, 20; Mark 1:9.) Moreover, baptism

is an important step for those who

want to be saved. After mentioning Noah’s

constructing of the ark in which he and his

family were preserved during the Flood,

the apostle Peter stated: “That which corresponds

to this is also now saving you, namely,

baptism, . . . through the resurrection of

Jesus Christ.” (1 Pet. 3:20, 21) This does not

mean, though, that baptism is like an insurance

policy that you obtain in case a disaster

should strike. Instead, you get baptized because

you love Jehovah and want to serve

him with your whole heart, soul, mind, and

strength.—Mark 12:29, 30.

COMMENTS

In fact the WTS says that baptism as a jw is the mark mentioned at Ezekiel 9:4-6. That people who are not will die forever at Armageddon.

***w87 4/15 pp. 12-13 par. 12 Gaining Peace With God Through Dedication and Baptism***

Should even youths consider baptism? Well, recall that Jehovah told the six armed men in the vision: “Old man, young man and virgin and little child and women you should kill off—to a ruination. But to any man upon whom there is the mark do not go near.” (Ezekiel 9:6) Of course, children too young to make a dedication would be protected by a parent’s “mark” if that parent is striving to bring the children up to love Jehovah and if they are obediently responding. (1 Corinthians 7:14) Yet, if a child is intelligent enough to make a personal decision and has reached the point where he “knows how to do what is right,” do not presume that he will continue indefinitely under the merit of his parent’s “mark.”—James 4:17.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/113754/1/Watchtower-assaults-ite28099s-youth-e28093-fear-guilt-baptism-and-career-July-1-2006

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/192802/1/Only-Baptised-JWs-make-it-through-Armageddon

14. Why might some hold back from baptism, but

what assurance do you have?

14 Some may hesitate to get baptized out

of fear that they may be disfellowshipped at

a later time. Do you have this fear? If so,

such fear is not necessarily unhealthy in itself.

It can mean that you appreciate the serious

responsibility that comes with being

one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Might there

also be another reason? Maybe you are not

yet convinced that living by God’s standards

is the best way of life. In that case,

thinking about the consequences that come

to those who ignore Bible standards can

help you to make up your mind. On the other hand,

it could be that you love God’s standards

but do not trust yourself to be able to

live up to them. Actually, that can be a good

sign, for it shows humility on your part. After

all, the Bible says that all imperfect human

hearts are treacherous. (Jer. 17:9) But

you can be successful if you constantly ‘keep

on guard according to God’s word.’ (Read

Psalm119:9.)Whatever reasons there are for

your hesitation to get baptized, you need to

resolve such issues and concerns.*

*For help in this regard, see the book Questions Young

People Ask—Answers That Work, Volume 2, chapter 34.

COMMENTS

But based on the WTS statements that unbaptized people will die forever at Armageddon, avoiding baptism is not avoiding death per the WTS. And of course, unbaptized adult children of jws can be and have been shunned.

15, 16. How can you tell if you are ready for baptism?

15 How, though, can you tell whether you

are ready for baptism? One way is to ask

yourself such questions as: ‘Can I explain

basic Bible teachings to others? Do I engage

in the ministry even when my parents do

not? Do I endeavor to attend all Christian

meetings? Can I recall specific instances

when I resisted peer pressure? Would I continue

to serve Jehovah even if my parents

and friends stopped doing so? Have I prayed

about my relationship with God? And have I

actually made an unreserved dedication to

Jehovah in prayer?’

COMMENTS

Is a six year old ready, an eight year old, a ten year old? Perhaps based on the example of 5-year-old Samuel, 5-year old children could be baptized………!!!

Do you think the six year old baptized in Chicago a few years ago would go d2d without their parent, attend all the meetings even if their parents did not, resist peer pressure!!!!

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/187208/1/Nine-year-old-baptized

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/10382/1/We-dont-baptize-children-do-we

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/55955/1/Were-you-baptized-too-young

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/197778/1/Reaching-the-Goal-of-Baptism-old-enough

16 Baptism is a life-altering step that

should not be taken lightly. Are you mature

enough to consider this step seriously? Maturity

means more than being able to give

good talks from the platform or impressive

answers during a meeting. It requires being

able to make decisions based on an understanding

of Bible principles. (Read Hebrews

5:14.) If you are at a stage in life where you

can do that, then what lies before you is the

greatest privilege of all—that of serving Jehovah

wholeheartedly and living in a way

that shows that you are truly dedicated to

him.

COMMENTS

So if your child is not old enough to choose to marry, drive a car, smoke, sign a contract, are they old enough to make the most life-altering decision?

What will help you to reach

the goal of getting baptized?

17. What will help you cope with trials that may follow

your baptism?

17 Immediately after baptism, you may

feel a surge of enthusiasm for serving God.

Soon, though, you may face trials that will

test your faith and resilience. (2 Tim. 3:12)

Do not feel that you have to deal with these

trials alone. Seek your parents’ advice. Look

to mature ones in the congregation for help.

Maintain friendships with those who will

support you. Never forget that Jehovah cares

for you, and he will give you the strength

needed to face any circumstance that may

arise.—1 Pet. 5:6, 7.

COMMENTS

Feel a surge of enthusiasm—sounds like infatuation not grounded love

So how long will they seek parents advice? 20, 30, 50??? Or should a 16 year old seek the advice of their parents or “mature ones” who have no parental responsibility?

How Can You Reach Your Goals?

18, 19. How can you benefit from examining your

priorities?

18 Despite your best intentions, does it

seem that you just never have enough time

to do what you want and need to do? If so,

you should examine your priorities. To illustrate:

Take a plastic bucket and place several

large rocks inside it. Then fill the bucket

with sand. You have a bucket full of rocks

and sand. Empty the bucket but keep the

same sand and rocks. This time, fill the

bucket with the sand first, and then try to

place the rocks inside the bucket. No room?

That is because you put the sand in the

bucket first.

COMMENTS

This is a lame illustration…sounds like someone new is making them up or stealing someone else’s idea without attribution.

http://www.businessballs.com/rocks.htm

19 You face a similar challenge when managing

your time. If you put things like recreation

in first place, you will never seem to

have enough room in your life for the big

things—spiritual pursuits. But if you follow

the Bible’s admonition to “make sure of the

more important things,” you will find that

you have room for both Kingdom interests

and a measure of recreation.—Phil.1:10.

COMMENTS

So which is more important earning money for rent, food, transportation, or going to a meeting? Will the people there feed you if you quit your job because it interferes with one meeting?

20. If you experience anxiety and doubts as you

strive to reach your goals, what should you do?

20 As you strive to reach your goals, including

baptism, you may at times experience

anxiety and doubts. When you do,

“throw your burden upon Jehovah himself,

and he himself will sustain you.” (Ps. 55:22)

At present, you have the opportunity to

share in the most exciting and important

work in human history, a worldwide preaching

and teaching campaign. (Acts 1:8) You

could choose to be a spectator and watch

others do this work. Or you could be part of

the action. Do not hold back from contributing

your talents toward furthering Kingdom

interests. You will never regret serving

“your Creator in the days of your youth.”

—Eccl.12:1,New International Version.

COMMENTS

So will God provide food, housing, medicine?

Watch others not make return visits, waste time, not prepare…if jws were judged by how effective they were in making disciples as if a job, would they be fired?

What lesson do you learn from this illustration?

How Would You Answer?

Why should you set goals?
What are some goals that are worth

achieving?

What is involved in reaching the goal

of baptism?

How can examining your priorities

help you to attain your goals?

CONCLUDING COMMENTS

Things have been busy and stressful lately. Would you marry someone your parents picked and at a time they chose? If not do not let them make this decision for you. Get in a position where you are not dependent financially on your parents and have friends outside the KH.

Love, Blondie

sd-7

Great post, Blondie.

I noticed that Jesus was mentioned in all of one paragraph. Nice. Also, there were three whole paragraphs that went by without even a scripture citation. Stuff like that has helped me to realize recently just how little of the Bible is actually being considered at these meetings.

It's a contradictory concept, what they say to young people. Don't get baptized because of being pressured. But you will die, like, forever if you're old enough (whatever that vague concept means) and you haven't done it. ... But no pressure. Obviously. It's supposed to be your decision, yet you're going to be under constant pressure to do what they tell you to do. You'll be made to feel inadequate otherwise. It's a sad dilemma to grow up with.

I remember reading an old Kingdom Ministry where a father was praised for threatening to throw his son out of the house if he didn't pioneer. I found that to be bizarre and unfair, to say the least.

The picture of the girl getting baptized has a number of messages. For one, she's clearly well into her teens, I should think. For two, she's got the 'modest bathing suit', so it's not a wet T-shirt contest going on, a green T-shirt with evidently modest attire beneath it.

But I do wonder why I keep reading them lately. Guess it's one way to pass the time...

--sd-7

pirata

Why did I get baptized?

As a young teen, my mom, with all good intentions, kept asking me "what is holding you back from getting baptized?" I kept answering "I don't know".

Finally, I got baptized because it was the "right thing to do". I considered it "positive peer pressure". And I felt good about the praise I got in the congregation about my spiritual progress, good talks, etc.

garyneal

marked for later comment

MrFreeze

I was 12 when I got baptised. How can a 12 year old kid make that kind of a decision, let alone a 6 year old kid? It baffles me to this day. A decision I make then should not affect me 40 years from now. It's the same reason they don't try 12 year olds as adults.

ziddina

"As mentioned in the preceding article, a fundamental goal that you can set is to prove to yourself that what is said in the Bible is true. (Rom. 12:2; 2 Cor. 13:5) Your peers may believe in evolution or in various false religious doctrines because others have told them that this is what they should believe. ..."

!!!!!!!!!!!!

The level of hypocrisy in those statements rings the bell and beyond....

"Prove to yourself that what is said in the Bible is true..."???? Really??? Like researching the date that Babylon actually DID destroy Jerusalem??? 587 BC instead of 607 BC... Like learning Biblical Hebrew and Greek? Like obtaining a college education in biblical studies???

NONE of these activities would be approved by the Watchtower Society...

The second statement, "Your peers may believe in evolution ..... because others have told them that this is what they should believe. ..."

Really??? I've read numerous books on geology; I've looked at the sedimentary evidence just within my general geographic region, showing that a global flood within the last 6,000 - heck, within the last 50,000 years - didn't happen; I've been collecting fossils over my ENTIRE lifetime and have read extensively about them, and I base my confidence in the workability of the "theory" of evolution on what I've personally observed, along with other information I've obtained on the subject...

The time in my life when I was told what I SHOULD believe, occurred during the time I spent within the Watchtower Society's system...

All one has to do is look at the most recent edicts on the near-absolute authority ol of the Governing Body, to see where Jehovah's Witness youths are being told that "this is what they SHOULD believe..." !!

Thanks again, Blondie, for posting this!!

Zid

Sharpie

@ Mrfreeze I had a comment I wanted to say. But decided to keep my mouth shut.

There is one BOY age 11 that recently got baptized in my congregation. Obviously i dont want to pin point the child. But I do want to say something generic like. "We should follow Jesus's example, even though he was preaching at 12 (Luke 2:42), Jesus only got baptized when he was a mature adult"

DanaBug

I was 12, my brother was 10, my sister was 8.

This article seems to be saying those ages are too young especially par 15 & 16. I still think it's something that only adults should do.

JeffT

They lost me in the first couple of pargraphs. The Wathtower's map is, well OK, it needs to be updated on a regular basis because; mind you it wasn't WRONG, it just needed to be changed because stuff moves around, and it wasn't exacly right. And the compass spins in cricles because... well anyway you have to follow it.

RULES & REGULATIONS

Jesus said:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I will be with you always, to the very end of the age. (Matthew 28:19-20)

The Watchtower Society says in PARAGRAPH 12:

You should get baptized when you are

fully aware of what being one of Jehovah’s

Witnesses involves and when you are sure

that you are ready and willing to take on this

responsibility.—Eccl. 5:4, 5

I wish someone would of explained this to me when I got baptized at 15 years old. The WTS told me 30 years ago that I was baptized in the name of Father,Son and Holy Spirit not the WTS. Now they give me no choice but to fade since they changed the rules. You can easily get in the organization but impossible to get out.

SHAME ON YOU WTS for changing the rules and for making it too easy for young ones to get baptized !

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-16-11 WT Study (BAPTISM)

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