Paul, leading authority on Christianity, does NOT quote Jesus! (page 13)

jay88

To have water-cooler talk about a bible character is one thing.

To devalue a revelation of Christ over another(even WTBTS) speaks for itself.

No one has walked in GB shoes,.......

tec

But we do walk in the same time and world as the GB.

Out of curiosity, does the GB claim personal revelation from Christ?

Tammy

New Living Translation (©2007)
1 Corinthians 13:12 "Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely."

2 Corinthinas 5:12 "Are we commending ourselves to you again? No, we are giving you a reason to be proud of us, so you can answer those who brag about having a spectacular ministry rather than having a sincere heart."

2 Corinthins 10:8 "I may seem to be boasting too much about the authority given to us by the Lord. But our authority builds you up; it doesn't tear you down. So I will not be ashamed of using my authority."

1 Corinthins 9:16 "Yet preaching the Good News is not something I can boast about. I am compelled by God to do it. How terrible for me if I didn't preach the Good News!"

It seem to me that Paul clearly knew that he ahd made mistakes in the past and he owned up to them. The Apostles, while in Christ's direct presence were still confused about a great many thing and Christ constantly chastised them for their lack of faith.

What makes the Apostles any different that Paul? Nothing.

Some might argue that Paul wasn't one of the Twelve as he wasn't chosen directly by Jesus, he wasn't a witness to Jesus' miracles nor did he have the Holy Spirit infused into him by Christ in a direct manner.

Paul never claimed to be one of the Twelve, nor did it seem important to him. As a Pharisee, he had obvious experience with people's lack of humility and the taking of titles unti themselves as being of some relevance. The Twelve obviously suffered from this, for even on the night of Jesus impending death were they arguing about who amongst them were the greatest. They suffered (like we all do) of the all too human condition of pride and frailty of faith.

The Holy Spirit doesn't give a person the answer. It gives an answer. What I mean is, you ask a question, it gives an answer and then you use your Bible-trained conscience to figure out what is being said in the context of your experience.

Paul's experience was withing the Law of Moses, so he taught what he knew. The Apostles experiences were of the everyday sort and they taught what they knew. No one way of teaching is in any way better than another.

As to Paul circumcising Timothy. Paul said "to the Jew he is as a Jew, to the Greekas to a Greek" and so on. In the context of whom Paul and Timothy preached to, the circumcision was a smart thing to do and it had absolutely nothing to do with whether the Law was still in effect or not. It broke down a barrier that the Jews had in regards to speaking to Gentiles. The circumcision of Timothy was a way to get his "foot in the door". Afterwards he could reason with the Jews and help them to see it was unnecessary in the end. He couldn't just tell them the Law was abolished with the coming of Christ, since the Jews didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah in the first time. So he had to have a way to be able to talk with them first (to be acceptable to them), then he could reason with them through the Torah and The Law and help them realize that Jesus was the Messiah.

Unlike the WTBTS, Paul did admit his errors and this is why these things are recorded for our benefit, to show that even teachers and "older men" need to have humility and accept correction where it is due.

Peace,

Awen

jay88

shoes Tammy,.....shoes

Never been a JW Tammy?

tec

No, I was never a JW, Jay. I only did a study of the "What does the bible really teach?" for two years, and I had finally decided I wanted to be baptized, believing that the GB were chosen by God (to the point that I had started throwing away other religious 'tracts' without even looking at them). I believed them; but I never realized until after I decided that I could not join, just how little I actually knew about them and what they believed until I read jwfacts and joined this site.

Tammy

twinkle toes

marked

jay88

Tec-believing that the GB were chosen by God

.............

This is what they claim correct?

,.......it's nap-time for me . Sweet-dreams.

tec

You know, I like the point you're trying to make, Jay - in the double standard. Because I don't like it when people use them either, and I do hope that if someone notices me using double-standards that they will point it out, because I strive not to use them. But in order for this to be a double-standard, then the GB has to say that they receive direct revelation from Christ, the same as Paul.

I think Paul made a mistake by emphasizing the law over going to Christ. But again, all we get from Paul is one side of his letters (and not even all of his letters). We don't get what he said in person to these people, or even a recounting of that. The letters were follow-up to various churches. So I must give him the benefit of the doubt, since I don't know the whole story.

Now I don't personally know enough about any member of the GB or the witnesses to judge whether they are individually sincere or mislead or malicious. But I can know about the times in which they live, who they preach to, what they say and believe specifically - because its all written out, and I am living in these times.

Tammy

Awen

Peace be with you:

Many of us or maybe none of us have ever walked in GB shoes is true. I fail to see your point though. The Governing Body who do claim to be YHWH's sole channel of information for mankind have taken on a great responsibility and a great bloodguilt if they do not handle their responsibilites in a loving manner.

All throughout the scriptures the Bible tells us that man does not have the supreme authority to govern, nor should his words be taken at face value. All things uttered by man should be tested for truth and consistency. The WTBTS utterly fails in consistency when it comes to the "New Light" teaching. Not once in the Bible has YHWH ever changed a teaching. Not. Once. it is man who have changed God's words for their own profit.

A false teacher can be known by his pride (Cain's rejection of God's plan), greed (Balaam's prophesying for money), and rebellion (Korah's promotion of himself over Moses). Jesus said to beware of such people and that we would know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:15-20).

We don't need to walk in the GB shoes to know they're wrong. We need only read the Bible and open our eyes.

Peace,

Awen

designs

Ok Awen you're off to the races.

'Not once in the Bible has God ever changed a teaching' 'it is man who have changed God's words' 'we only need to read the Bible and open our eyes'.

Hold on to your knickers kid its going to be a fun ride.....

Paul, leading authority on Christianity, does NOT quote Jesus!

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