Good solid advice, nugget. This is definitely a toxic relationship and dangerous. You should both be strong and not let this abuse continue. I have not talked to my jw family for ten years because they could not stop their verbal, mental, and emotional abuse. It has been so wonderful.
Advice for a non-witness dealing with a fiance's witness family
by JAG913 39 Replies latest jw friends
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Amelia Ashton
Hi Jaime and welcome to the site.
I agree with everything that has been said so far and wish you and your little family every happiness for the future.
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bohm
(marking)
Hi and welcome! Our situation is very similar, yes its completely nuts. I will write you when i have more time. in the mean time, have you read steven hassans "releasing the bonds" or "combatting cult mind control"?
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Finally-Free
You don't have to be rude, but you must be firm.
Unfortunately, rudeness is sometimes the only thing a JW will understand. Excessive politeness only encourages them. The only way I could ever get a JW to shut up and back off was by instilling a little fear. It's not something that I like to do, but I like listening to their crap even less.
I recommend drawing up some "rules of conduct" and mailing her a copy. Any violation of these non negotiable rules results in immediate ejection from your home and loss of contact with your family, the length of time to be determined by you. In these rules I would forbid any attempt to communicate religious ideas to my children. You and your fiance are not to be shunned or undermined in any way, and never to be disrespected in any way in front of the children.
Make them understand that, in regards to your family, you make the rules, and their only right is to obey quietly.
Knowing JWs, this process may have to be repeated weekly for the rest of your life, sorry to say.
W
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designs
Yep, time to stand up for your values and child. Your MIL may mellow in time, babies have a way of doing that, but expect dinners and other gatherings to be a little tense when you are dealing with people who have an agenda to convert and condemn.
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DesirousOfChange
Nugget: I take it your fiance was not baptised and yet is being treated like a Df'd person.... If you MIL was a drunk or a drug addict you wouldn't think twice the threat is so clear.
Blonde: This is definitely a toxic relationship and dangerous. You should both be strong and not let this abuse continue.
Jaime Bowers: You don't have to be rude, but you must be firm.
ALL GREAT ADVICE! You don't have to be rude, but you don't have to allow you or your loved ones to be abused. Yet, your best approach is to always appear reasonable and understanding and willing to compromise.
Some thoughts on dealing with the situation:
I am assuming your fiance IS/WAS a baptised JW or the family would not be totally shunning him. (1 Cor 5:11 "But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator.....")
If he is NOT baptised (as Nugget suggested), then I would ask your MIL what is her scriptural basis for shunning him? In JW legalese, he is simply a "man of the world" or a "weak" unbaptised publisher and should be encouraged, not shunned.
If he IS baptised, then get the following quote off of the WT-Library CD, from the article “Is it Wrong to Change Your Religion?” in the July 2009 Awake p29: “No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.”Is she trying to make him choose between his beliefs and his family?? Show her that is contrary to recent (2009) WT doctrine. (A quote from a non-witness website won't be acceptable!)
Also, get the quote from 09/15/81 Watchtower Pg 29, Par18: "The second situation that we need to consider is that involving a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative who is not in the immediate family circle or living at one’s home. Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so there may be some limited need to care for necessary family matters. Nonetheless, it is not as if he were living in the same home where contact and conversation could not be avoided." Determining what are "necessary family matters", i.e., seeing one's grandchildren, is a matter of individual conscience. While an elder or MS might be at risk of losing their position if it is determined that they abuse the loophole, there is no action that can be taken against his mother (unless she is a pioneer). She will be giving up the only opportunity the child has to be exposed to the good influence of a Witness environment.
A former Circuit Overseer, who was a friend of my parents, said that one of his life's greatest regrets was refusing to go to his son & DIL's wedding, which they had at a non-religious site by a Justice of the Peace (not a clergyman) as a compromise to the Witness family members. His regret was that it alienated this kind, reasonable girl so badly that for years she never agreed to listen to the Kingdom Message like she might have if they had been reasonable on the matter. He sites Jesus example of healing the woman with the flow of blood in Luke 8:43-48. In touching Jesus, this woman broke an absolute rule of the Mosaic Law. Yet, Jesus did not condemn her, but healed her. The WT uses this as an example of Jesus being "reasonable and yielding" vs. ridgidly enforcing the Law.
Finally, you might have some hope in convincing her that once you are married, he will no longer be a "fornicator". The scripture says to not mix with anyone who is a "fornicator". You might have some success in noting that to continue to do so, would be "adding to" the Word of God.
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carla
Lots of good advice already! and Congratulations on your baby!
Sadly your mil will never stop trying to get her son, you and child into the jw's. Sounds like you have already researched quite extensivley already and know the heartache and problems these ex jw's carry with them their entire lives. My advice to anybody with children and jw's in their life is to never, ever leave your child alone with a jw! not even for a minute. If they come to visit make sure you have another adult around so you can go to the bathroom or kitchen without the 'loving' grandparents slipping in how you will all die at the big A or are evil for celebrating holidays, etc.... Limit your time with them and YOU make the boundries. If she will not abide by them then she doesn't see the child. You are family unit and this only seeing the child and not her own son has to end. How will you explain such behavior to your child if you sanction it? Protect your child's health which includes their mental, spiritual and physical well being. That's your job now. Good luck! you will need it.
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JAG913
Thank you all so much for the encouraging advice.
Yes, my fiance was indeed baptizied at the age of 10. He slowly faded from the organization and avoided the elders as they came knocking on our apartment door and calling his cell phone to try and find him. He chose to do it this way so that he was not DF'd, but just "inactive." We wanted to ensure his family could have a place in our lives if they chose to.
In our September conversation we set those very firm guidelines, and haven't seen her since. She recently had lunch with my fiance, but took that hour not to ask how her son or grandson were, but to berate him about his life choices. I know she is displeased with our choices, but neither of us is budging on this. She wants to take our son to the zoo this summer, ABSOLUTELY NOT. At 1 year old, she can't really influence him as he won't understand her... but what if they got in a car accident? I can't trust her to care for him the way I would, and I'm not risking her making the decision in my absence (in regards to blood). I have already made the decision that she will never be left alone with him, or allowed to watch him.
I've never been in this situation before and it seems so extremist. The relationship between her and her son is for them to work through, I support my fiance. But I will not stand idly by and listen to her belittle him. But my son is a different story, it is I who makes the decision and am charged with caring for him. I have made it perfectly clear that anyone discussing religion with him and filling his head with stories and fears will not be tolerated and they will NEVER see him again if this happens even once. I also made it clear that the only time he will ever be in a kingdom hall will be for her funeral (said verbatim). I will not go back on this. I hope it's been made clear.
I appreciate the encouragement... it's a hard decision to make in "cutting off" a family member. But what Nugget said hit the nail on the head... I would never leave my son with a drunk or drug addict, and this would/could be hurting him just as severely. A broken leg heals quicker than emotional damage. I already don't know how to explain her relationship with her own son when he gets older and questions things... "Grandma won't talk to Daddy because he had you?" Yeah, like that isn't baggage! I also won't have my child used as a pawn. It's amazing that they would miss out on the life of an little boy just to further an agenda... why would anyone knowingly join such an organization that does this to families and people? I can see being raised this way you don't know any different, but to join mid-life, what the heck?
As I said, thank you so much for the encouragement and kind words. It makes me feel even more comfortable and justified in my decision. My fiance and I both believe this is their choice, they have the ability to be a part of our lives, they have decided not to. But, it's hard on my fiance, and that breaks my heart. To hear them say they aren't happy the baby was born and they will not congratulate him... sickens me. What do I say to him to help? I stand by his side, listen and do what I can. But really what do you say? I guess I'm so new to this whole organization and mind control, it's hard to get used to...
Thanks,
Jaime
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Gayle
JWs trust and obey the leadership of the Governing Body. Most of this leadership never had children. Yet they set the rules on how children should be raised. Also, they enforce for JW family of grown children, who leave the religion, to shun their own children.
More and more of JW aging and elderly are shunning their own as most children raised in the religion are leaving at some point as they mature.
Now many of the aging and elderly JWs are facing loneliness and disappointment that they created in their choices throughout their life.
You must look to your future and your child's future to have a great childhood. A childhood of unconditional love from you, joy in his tender years of simplicity and not the exaggerated burdensome issues of life.
Your future mother-in-law is the one that will get hurt by her own choice.
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OnTheWayOut
These situations are so tough. You want to be fair in recognizing that your son's grandmother wants to be a part of his life, but she's in a dangerous mind-control cult and doesn't respect many aspects of your life. She will attack beliefs behind your back if she is allowed unsupervised visits with the grandson. She will try to make him believe that birthdays and holidays are evil.
I would say you all are a package deal. You cannot leave your son with his family members ever unsupervised, and they should only be supervised by your fiance. "If you want to visit one, you visit the other with him." If they cannot deal with that, then "Have a nice life." Regardless, send them photos and cards every now and again to make it clear that they are always welcome on your terms.
If they don't live up to your terms, you can explain to your son that they are being misled by loyalty to a religion and won't visit his dad, that it has nothing to do with him.