Discussion involving my Dad & other long timers - Mood is definately different

by Doubting Bro 98 Replies latest jw friends

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    I've seen several posts relating to the mood among longtime JWs here recently. I thought I would add to that collection and recount a discussion I recently had with my Dad and a small group of folks about his age. Quick background on the group:

    My Dad - Been an elder around 20 years or so, a JW around 40 years. Was recently removed for some BS reasons surrounding family. I don't want to put much detail since I want to make sure there is plausible deniability but I will say that he followed the Borg's rule as they were written and got whacked anyway.

    Person #2 - long time pioneer and a person I would describe as a fanatical JW. Hard core, judgemental and will defend the WTS at all costs (or so I thought).

    Person #3 - was an elder, stepped down for several years and now a MS. Nice guy.

    My mom and several others were involved in the conversation but didn't do much talking. We'd all had a couple of drinks and somehow, I managed to stay pretty quite which I'm releaved about since they know I have apostate leanings and I know that person #2 would likely turn me in if I said too much.

    The discussion revolved around 3 main topics:

    1 - Treatment of disfellowshipped people, faders and non-JWs in general - One of my siblings is a "believing fader". He/She can't live the JW life but generally believes and has a bit of guilt over it. I've not had any real anti-JW discussions with this sibling because JW stuff just doesn't come up in our discussions. This sibling is married to a non-JW. Person #2 has a df'ed son who will never come back. My Dad proceeds to go OFF on how the WTS acts like the Pharisees in Jesus day treating people who don't believe the same why they do like dirt. He defends the df'ing policy to a degree but says that Paul didn't mean to totally shun people but to rather not exchange spiritual ideas with them! I was stunned. He is especially sensitive to the instructions to shun your family if not living in your house. My Dad, like all of us, has his faults but he is loyal to his family. I know that he would not engage in shunning any of his kids if they were df'ed. He has a relationship with my faded sibling and spouse and has no intention of giving that up. But, he's very upset that the counsel he's received is to limit his association with this sibling. He thinks the folks in Bethel making the rules have no idea what it's like to live in the real world and no idea what a family is! They sit up there, make their rules while the folks in the local congregations have to pick up the pieces of a broken family. Person #2 & #3 start to disagree a little (reflex defense of the WTS) but quickly joined forces. I also carefully agreed but let them do most of the talking. The best line from him - "We go knocking on total strangers doors speading a message that is supposed to highlight love and then have to treat the ones we should love the most like they don't exist. How is that love?" He also realizes that you can't force an adult to follow a religion if they don't want to. "Didn't Jehovah give us free will?" he asked.

    2- How elders/ms are scrutinized - He was also very upset at the way many COs treat the servant body. He used the analogy of how chickens are. If you've ever kept chickens, you know that if one hen gets a cut or something, the entire flock will continue picking at the wound and make it worse. You have to cover the wound or even keep the injured chicken separate until it heals or the flock will continue going after the injured chicken and can kill it. He said that's how the WTS is sometimes!! COs routinely blast the elder body over the stupidest things. I think anyone who has been an elder could agree with that. In his case, he felt that the other elders went after his perceived deficiency and other members of the local congregation did so as well. Nothing is ever good enough for them, he said. At this point, I interjected into the discussion and told him I felt the exact same way. I said that the COs expect perfection yet don't hold themselves to the same standard. He also said that the rest of the congregation expects the elders to be perfect and when they're not, quickly picks on the imperfection. Again, I agreed and said that's a reason why I would NEVER serve again. Just not worth it. Person #3 also agreed and said he was happy being just a MS and wouldn't want the stress that comes with being an elder.

    3 - Discouragement about not making converts - Person #2 started talking about how after 30+ years of pioneering, she was ready to hang it up! She said she drives around all day knocking on doors and no one responses. She said how she used to make converts but even those were mostly crazy (true - they were all crazy in the clinical sense). Now, even the crazy ones don't respond. She laments at the things she's missed, she wants to travel, to do things with her remaining time on earth. I've described her as a fanatical JW and I almost hit the floor when she was saying this. Everyone in the group agreed that for the most part, the door to door work was a complete waste of time!!!

    So, if this group is indicative of the mood among the ones in their 60s-70s out in JW land, the GB should be very concerned about the loss of control. Of course, this group also said several times that they "would never leave Jehovah or his organization" and that "Jehovah works with what he has" and other various statements of loyalty to the WTS. I recognized that they felt they had to say that to avoid the perception they are becoming apostate. However, my Dad also said that just because he thinks Jehovah is using the organization doesn't mean he agrees with everything they do or say.

    The WTS has lost my generation. Those that didn't leave are fairly apathic. Very few men in their 30s-40s wish to be elders and do as little as possible. The younger generation kids - 20s don't hold pioneering, Bethel or being a MS as a goal and live double lives. But, it really does seem as if they are now losing my parents generation. Remember, these are people that went through 1975 and stayed. They gave up careers, saving for retirement, dreams because Armageddon was "right around the corner". Now, they're coming face to face with the reality that isn't not coming, they are going to die in "this system" and the WTS doesn't value anything they've done in the past. I feel sad for them, I really do. But, at least I'm seeing that they realize something is seriously wrong. They actually talk of reform!! And, at least this group, decided that if they have to choose between family and the congregation, family will win. And to me, that's a huge victory.

  • designs
    designs

    It has to be very sobering for those still in who are my age bracket, 60s-70s. Its a time of reflection anyway and to hear the same old End Times recycled public talks and Watchtowers plus all of the peer pressure at some point somethings got to give, and the hope is its a run for your remaining years of life outside.

  • carla
    carla

    I hope their attitude spreads like wildfire! (if it hasn't already)

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat
    She said how she used to make converts but even those were mostly crazy (true - they were all crazy in the clinical sense). Now, even the crazy ones don't respond.

    LOL that is so true.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Sooner or later, you can't help but notice that some things just don't work. This is why slavery was abolished and women were given equal rights.

    Beating someone when they are down doesn't work. Subjugating people doesn't work. Judging people doesn't work. And the JW message ... well, it just doesn't work either.

  • kimbo
    kimbo

    It is less than 5 years away

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    We'd all had a couple of drinks and somehow, I managed to stay pretty quiet -

    As Jimmy Stewart said in the 1960s movie "Mr. Hobbs takes a vacation" - strange how some people just can't see any good in booze.

    But my bet is that this is still their true opinion without input of alcohol.

    The simple fact is, as said above - probably a majority of witnesses who have lived 60 years or more with this constant "end is near" harping, have pretty much given up on it in their lifetimes. And, as mentioned above, the young people probably never have asimilated it in the first place.

  • tia.dalma
    tia.dalma

    Interesting story...

    but the situation is different from country to country and from congregation to congregation.

    where i live i got the feeling the elders behave a little like dictators in the congregation, they are very few and they try to restrict other young men from becoming elders, like they want to keep all the power in their hands... I don't know how the CO treats them, when he comes in the congregation they change a little, but the new attitude keeps them only for a week...

    that's why I'm saying it depends on the congregation and the geographical area.

  • aquagirl
    aquagirl

    The congregation here is still protecting the child abusers and have their favorites.I get my info 2nd hand tho,since I dont have time to go and listen to fairytales...What is less than 5 years away?

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    The more dissidents there are, the easier more will find it to be dissident.

    The more who leave, the easier more will find it to leave.

    If GB2.0 really is having this place monitered, they must be freaking out on at least some level. Remember how paranoid Old Man Jaracz was about the Vast Apostate Army?

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