Discussion involving my Dad & other long timers - Mood is definately different

by Doubting Bro 98 Replies latest jw friends

  • sir82
    sir82
    It is less than 5 years away

    What is?

    Armageddon?

    If so, it's been "less than 5 years away" for all the 40+ years I can remember.

    Holy shifting timetable, Batman!

    Re: the topic at hand, I think the change happened with the "generation change" Watchtower in 1995 (there's been so many you have to specify which one). Looking back, there seems to be a slow, steady, deflation of spirit since then, as people began realizing that, yes, just like every human who ever lived before them, they will grow old, get sick, and die.

    The ones least able to cope with the modern world are the ones who most fervently wish for Armageddon to come "soon", the ones whose conversations are sprinkled with increasingly desperate murmurings that "it can't go on much longer!" and "It's not soon, it's imminent" and "It's not right around the corner, it's right there."

    Something's got to give. The older generation is dying off, and the kids can't be bothered to "reach out". Within a decade there will be leadership vacuum so fierce it will dwarf the Catholics' "priest shortage" the WT likes to gloat over so much.

  • donuthole
    donuthole

    Thank you for sharing. We have seen a few of these reports recently and it is a very interesting look at what is starting to happen within. It seems that some are falling out of love with the Watchtower. It may be that they still believe she is "the Truth" and "God's Organization" but they are responding in subtle ways, such as by not reaching out, witholding donations, or skirting some of the rules. Take a look at the chatter coming down from the leadership. They gnash their teeth at how some of the old timers are actually encouraging younger ones not to make the same mistakes they did and prepare for a future by going to college. In response the leadership grows more controlling, more hardline and orders that any elder who has a child in college will have to be critically looked at to see if they are still able to serve in the congregation. These orders come down and the elders become even more disenchanted at the clamping down and respond by withdrawing and stepping aside, shrinking the pool of elders in an organization that is already starved for local leadership.

    I expect this trend to continue, even growing as we approach 2014. The "stay alive 'til '75" generation are approaching retirement and with no end in sight they are facing the reality that they will be dying in this system of things. They may be looking at the life they gave in kingdom service , the sacrifices they have made, and see it as futile. They have no retirement to speak of and are facing the challenge of making ends meet. They are looking back sadly at the family they have missed out on. (Those that have lost family due to disfellowshipping or have chosen not to have family until the Paradise.)

    I think it will be my generation - the post 1975 crowd that offers the best hope of keeping the Organization afloat in the near future, though in many ways we were already less zealous than our parents. We missed the hype of 1975 and were too young to appreciate the significance of 1994. Those of this generation that remained in it still believe it's "God's organization" but on some level have lost apocalyptic certainty of those before them. They lived through a time where the leadership's stance on college was much more moderate and thus have a more balanced outlook toward the world outside of the religion. These are the ones most likely to insist their children go to college despite what the Organization rules. While they would hope the end will come they may have already planned on living it out.

    The current generation, including teenagers and those in their early twenties, is going to be a major loss. They are decidely more worldy in attitude, outlook, and action. As the OP mentioned they are leading "double lives". These ones really skirt the rules; they maintain association with disfellowshipped ones. They are nominally JW's but not much interested in reaching out to serve and even if they wanted to they lack the qualifications. Many will have already been in some judicial trouble and if they remain they are working off the stigma of that.

    The Organization will not be able to survive its current form passed thirty-five years. I'm not saying that if will totally die-off but it will be a radically different beast. The attrition has already started. The Watchtower is losing the hearts and minds of her followers. The Governing Body is responding by becoming more hardline, which I believe will cause spot-fires of rebellion. This has already started in the minds of the rank and file but will blossom as we move ahead.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    sir82 - "Something's got to give. The older generation is dying off, and the kids can't be bothered to 'reach out'. Within a decade there will be leadership vacuum so fierce it will dwarf the Catholics' 'priest shortage' the WT likes to gloat over so much."

    Reminds me of the story about a group of elders who allegedly contacted a DFed XJW to see if they could convince him to pursue reinstatement with the ultimate goal of eldership - due to the shortage.

    Maybe this is the reason for maintaining the two-witness rule with regards to pedophiles; they're having to scrape the bottom of the barrel more and more.

    "Winners" who gloat inevitably see their "victory" taken from them.

    kimbo - "It is less than five years away."

    What is? The WT's collapse? A full-on retreat to the alleged bunker complex upstate? The fifth dentist caving to peer pressure and finally recommending Trident, too?

  • undercover
    undercover
    I think the change happened with the "generation change" Watchtower in 1995 (there's been so many you have to specify which one). Looking back, there seems to be a slow, steady, deflation of spirit since then

    That's been my observation as well...at least with dubs in my age group. Our parents (and grandparents if still alive) are still holding on to the last string of hope of an imminent Armageddon but those of us who were not that old in 95 saw the rug pulled out from under us. The college education we didn't need...the career that would have been a waste of time...the securities of "worldly" institutions started to seem more important. The "end" was now delayed and we needed to be ready for old age and retirement.

    I saw it in pioneers and elders even. One elder lamented that he had never signed up for 401K or a retirement accounts through his place of business. He was starting to worry. Pioneers that were satisfied working part-time and for other brothers for a pittance were starting to think about full-time careers, or at least real jobs.

    But yet at the same time, many of them didn't wake up enough to stand up and walk away. They were disappointed but not disgusted. They continued to give time and money to the organization that lied to them.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    donuthole - "Take a look at the chatter coming down from the leadership. They gnash their teeth at how some of the old timers are actually encouraging younger ones not to make the same mistakes they did and prepare for a future by going to college. In response the leadership grows more controlling, more hardline and orders that any elder who has a child in college will have to be critically looked at to see if they are still able to serve in the congregation. These orders come down and the elders become even more disenchanted at the clamping down and respond by withdrawing and stepping aside, shrinking the pool of elders in an organization that is already starved for local leadership."

    The velvet glove has fully come off the iron fist. Whenever that happens, it takes a regime change to make things better; reform is all but impossible.

    I talk about this here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/205377/1/Somethings-been-on-my-mind

    Would you mind perusing the thread and posting your thoughts there?

  • Gayle
    Gayle

    The GB, as expressed and criticizing at the last Annual Meeting, are aware of many older/elderly ones expressing regrets.

    Many older ones already are telling the younger ones how they regretted not getting an education, pursuing a lucrative career, saving up money or not having a retirement plan. The sad truth is that such ones are like the murmurers of Israel when coming out of Egypt. Such ones wanted to go back to Egypt, not realizing Egypt was later to be defeated by the Babylonians and what was in store for them (the nation of Israel) was "the promised land that flowed with milk and honey." http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/200214/1/WTBTS-2010-AGM-notes-GAG-alert

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Gayle - "The GB, as expressed and criticizing at the last Annual Meeting, are aware of many older/elderly ones expressing regrets."

    Yeah, I told my inactive-for-almost-a-decade-but-still-mentally-in-in-a-lot-of-ways wife this about a month ago; she was incredulous.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Something just ocurred to me; if the worm is indeed turning, I wonder what the ratio of completely silent dissidents are to ones that feel brave enough to speak out, even if only in private.

  • stuckinamovement
    stuckinamovement

    Change is in the wind. I can see it in my congregation. Many people know that there is something wrong. The indicators that tell them all is not right include: branch closings, no new appointments to the GB, increasing partakers, the end not coming, an increasing authoritarian tone in the literature, legal judgements against the Witnesses, and little to no increase in publishers. Not a tremendous amount of good news for the organization lately. I have even heard some muse that "it seems as if God's spirit is missing". People see that there is someting wrong. It just takes getting them to understand why these things are happening. SIAM

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    stuckinamovement - "Change is in the wind."

    I can't shake the feeling that the changes ain't gonna smell pretty.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit