WHY WOULD IT BE IMPORTANT WHETHER JESUS DIED ON A CROSS OR A STAKE?

by dgp 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  dgp

  I read on a recent thread that one of the magazines now has the old story of whether Jesus really died on a cross. I know the idea behind this chorus line is to say that you're being lied to as to how Jesus died. If they lied to you about this simple thing, what else would they lie to you about?

  But, at the end of the day (particularly of the day in the Golgotha), if Jesus died for your sins, WHY WOULD IT BE IMPORTANT WHETHER JESUS DIED ON A CROSS OR ON A STAKE?

  Would any Governing Body member please answer?
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  brotherdan

  I am obviously not a gb member, but I wrote a subject on the cross at jwcritic.blogspot.com

  The importance really isn't on what KIND of object Jesus died on. The message of the cross is what is important according to 1Cor 1:18: "The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God."

  But because the WT accuses the cross of being pagan and they say that it should be completely avoided and abhorent to Christians...well that is when I have issue.

  I wrote a long piece on this on my blog. If you care to check it out, please comment and let me know what you think.
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  miseryloveselders

  I can't answer on behalf of a Governing Body member, but to me what happened here was representative of how this religion lost its way entirely during Rutherford's reign and then onward. Whether or not Jesus died on a cross, or straight pole, is a worthless debate. Its not beneficial to anybody, in my personal opinion anyway. I believe in the process of arguing whether or not there's an issue with idolatry in how people use the cross in worship, the WT tried to undermine the debate alltogether by stating Jesus never died on a cross in the first place. All they ended up doing was shooting themselves in the foot because believe it or not there are some people willing to actually research the matter and see that its quite possible Jesus died on a cross. Its possible he died on an upright pole without a cross beam, but more likely he died on a cross considering tradition.

  Thats my take any way, for what its worth.
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  thetrueone

  It became important to the JWS because it partially was used to show how wrong Christendom was in regards the way they idolized

  the symbolism of the Cross in the manner they do. Throwing dirt on to other religions has been an on going agenda for the WTS. as its known.

  By the way there is much more informative evidence that suggests that torture stakes consisted of two pieces, one crossing

  over the other., not that it matters. Being that the bible does say that it was wrong to idolize graved images of god's,

  so in a religious sense they may be right to this.
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  brotherdan

  The majority of Christians do NOT idolize the cross, give worship through it, or promote any other type of worship of it. It is merely a symbol of Christianity. As I said, it is the cross's message that is important. If you pray to a cross or through it then you are TOTALLY wrong in this.

  But this, as far as I know, is a VERY rare teaching. I'm not sure that even catholics worship "through" the cross. They hold it as a symbol that reminds them of the message. But it is nothing that has supernatural properties.
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  miseryloveselders

  Being that the bible does say that it was wrong to idolize graved images of god's,

  so in a religious sense they may be right to this.

  Me personally, I agree with them on this too, but again in their neverending quest to as you put it, throw dirt on every other faith, they went too far. They should have just left the historical accuracy of whatever Jesus died on alone, and stuck with the is it idolatry debate.
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  OUTLAW

  Jesus lived for hours after being crucified..

  He would have Suffocated within 1/2hr,with his hands over his head..

  The WBT$ is run by Idiots..

  JW`s would believe anything the WBT$ GB Clowns said..

  "Jesus died at the Circus!"..

  ......................... ...OUTLAW
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  brotherdan

  Also, remember that John 20:25 says: So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

  Note that Thomas asks to put his finger where the NAILS were in his hands. PLURAL. There was more than 1 nail used in Jesus hands. This implies that his hands were spread out, with a nail in each one.
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  thetrueone

  It has also to do with the pagan originality of graved images as to how they were once worshiped

  that the JWs were trying to make a point about.
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  brotherdan

  Actually the pagan significance of the upright phallic torture stake is even greater. The Watch Tower paints a perverse picture of Jesus impaled by a stake. An upright phallic symbol that is much older than most of the cross-like imitations of the adversary.

  

  Also, ask a JW to go on to his WT library and search for "pole" in the NWT. You will find that this upright sacred pole was detestable to God. So if you want to argue paganism, then you have to admit that the torture stake was phallic and pagan too.

  The sacred poles apparently stood upright and were made of wood, or at least contained wood, the Israelites being commanded to cut them down and to burn them. (Ex 34:13; De 12:3) They may have simply been uncarved poles, perhaps even trees in some instances, for God’s people were instructed: “You must not plant for yourself any sort of tree as a sacred pole.”—De 16:21.