Witnesses at my door today

Lily Pie

So, I've been waiting for them to do the *rounds* here for a while. And they finally turned up.

I lead the discussion towards Holy Spirt and Personal Relationship with God. (personal relationship with God is really about interacting with the Father, Jesus & the Spirit, not just the Spirit - but I think emphasising Spirit is a simple way to get across my point) I was curious about whether or not they had one. A personal relationship with God, did they feel they *knew* God. You know.

I brought up These passages, Jeremiah 31:33-34, AND John 3:5-8 AND basically all of Romans 8. My question to them was ;

Does the covenent described in Jeremiah apply to only the annointed or does it include the great crowd?

They said they *felt* they called upon the Holy Spirit, and that they had a personal relationship with God. But they were going to get back to me on my specific question and were going to read the passages I suggested in reference to that question. One of the ladies was really keen, the other I think knew better. 50/50 I get a return visit.

I feel like I've wasted my time even talking to them though. ;( But there must have been a reason God sent them around to me on a day I was actually home - and at relative peace with thier religious choice.

So I wonder - Did I waste my time on them?

- Do you think witnesses do *know* God, even if it is in a less dynamic way than charismatics? I'm not convinced they are *unsaved* as some say. Maybe the enemy has misled them in some important respects.

Lily Pie

MrMonroe

They think they know God. But that's because they have been instructed on what their relationship with God is and how they feel about it. That woman is going away only to find out what she has been TOLD she believes. Anyone who knows their relationship with God doesn't need to go away and do "research".

Heaven

So I wonder - Did I waste my time on them?

Lily Pie, no, you didn't waste your time. I think everytime you plant a seed that makes them think outside the Botchtower is a good thing. They probably won't return though. You aren't going to be an easy mark.

Do you think witnesses do *know* God, even if it is in a less dynamic way than charismatics?

What I think is that, if you know love, then you know God. That is the extent to which I define 'God'. I don't see him as an external Father figure, Spirit being

So, in my context, I would have to say 'Yes, Witnesses know God' but I also think that everyone has their own definition of what 'knowing God' is. The unfortunate part about a lot of Witnesses is that their love is conditional based on their cult and so their love is a limited ideal.

3Mozzies

They think they know God. But that's because they have been instructed on what their relationship with God is and how they feel about it. That woman is going away only to find out what she has been TOLD she believes. Anyone who knows their relationship with God doesn't need to go away and do "research".

Spot on Mr Monroe

It's like asking a man: "How much do you love your wife?", only to hear him say: "I need time to research your question, so I can provide an answer". What a joke...

3Mozzies

punkofnice

They won't openly admit this but many JDubs are depressed as they feel that no matter how much 'work' they do, door knocking and stuff, they don't feel Jehovah answers their prayers.

I know, as an Eldub, this was a comment I often heard.

Black Sheep

LOL. They have to rush off and find out what they believe. Nice one.

Another trick is to use the Bible to get them to commit to a position that you know is contradicted by their litterature. Once they have committed, ask them to show it to you from their literature....... or .... get them to commit to a position that you know is contradicted in a soon to be studied Watchtower or a rag they have just placed with you.

Always address your question to the weakest one and try to not let the other one butt in and speak for her.

If these two don't come back, it doesn't mean you have wasted your time. JWs don't like to be seen as not having a sensible answer. It'll annoy them every time that subject comes up in the future.

If they do come back, don't let them change the subject. That's their favorite way out of a tricky question.

Cheers

Chris

Mad Sweeney

Punkofnice makes a great point. They hear and read experiences all the time that never seem to happen to them and so they're left wondering: is Jehovah not blessing me like he blessed Andre' and Maria because I'm not doing enough? That heavy guilt burden is tough to take for very long. The genuine personality inside most JWs is in doubt. The cult programming would have them turn the doubt on themselves. Breaking through the cult personality to reach the real person inside is the tricky part.

the-illuminator81

If you used the term "great crowd" then you won't get a return visit. Their apostate radar will be going off.

designs

lovelylil

Lily Pie,

I don't think it was a waste of time at all. You never know where these things will go. Hopefully you planted a little seed in their mind and they will do real research on that topic.

Over a year before I left the WT, I met a man in field service that told me that Jesus was equal to God as he was the same in nature as God, but the father was in a higher position to the son. He explained it so well that both myself and my service partner could not rebuttal what he said at all. what he said stayed with me the entire year and I called it back to mind when I was thinking about leaving the Witnesses. After doing my own personal research I came to agree with his position.

Another time, we were handing out Awakes on some ridiculous subject like training your puppies and I went to one door and the lady who answered told me she also preaches to people about God. I asked what her message was to see if it was about the Kingdom like ours was supposed to be and she told me her message was simple; it was this;

Jesus Christ Is Lord!

Something about the way she said it gave me chills. I simply looked at her and told her to keep up the good work and walked away.

Anyway, both these conversations sowed doubts about the organization in my mind and gave me a starting point for latter study.

Just wanted to share this with you, and say I think you did a fine job. Peace, Lilly

Witnesses at my door today

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