The Gentile Times Reconsidered (page 3)

Open mind

Thanks to OUTLAW, palmtree, TD and all the others who keep the latest JW apologists at bay.

Who knows how many on-the-fence lurking JWs are helped by your "keeping it real" posts.

I know I was.

om

TD

What's your point?

The same historians and scholars who give us the 539 BC date also give us the details I described on page 1. Do you or do you not accept them?

Spade

"The same historians and scholars who give us the 539 BC date also give us the details I described on page 1. Do you or do you not accept them?"

I haven't looked into it. I assume there's some sort of discrepancy.

palmtree67

I haven't looked into it. I assume there's some sort of discrepancy.

Frick!!

Yes, Alice. Read the other threads on this. The same scholars who accept the 539 date and are quoted by the WT, are suddenly considered "wrong" by the WT for their other dates, simply because they disagree with 607.

Hello??? Look at the threads Outlaw posted here for you!! Can you show just as many sources that agree with the WT dates?

Spade

"The same historians and scholars who give us the 539 BC date also give us the details I described on page 1. Do you or do you not accept them?"

He'll probably mention something in the Insight on the Scriptures book where Herodotus conflicts with Bible chronology.

Tyndale Bible Dictionary

The Greek historian Herodotus recorded that the city was established by Deioces, founder of the Median dynasty, early in the seventh century BC. In 550 BC Cyrus captured the city from a Median king, Astyages. It was from Ecbatana that Cyrus issued his 538 BC decree that all Jews throughout his kingdom might return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple of the Lord (Ezra 1:2-4). Later, an Aramaic memorandum regarding this decree was found in the records of Ecbatana after a fruitless search of the archives in Babylon (6:1-12). After Darius I (521–486 BC) quelled a revolt in securing the throne, he had the famous Behistun inscription carved in the side of Mt Orontes high above the city.

Joey Jo-Jo

Spade, if you do have Carl's book you would know that there are 14 lines of evidence against 607BCE and zero against 587BCE. You would also know that 607BCE idea came from a second adventist, this second adventist who adopted the idea from millinearies to link various scriptures to come up with the return of Christ (not the invicible return but the return to destroy), do you know what the bible says about people who prophecie Spade?

Despite what you have been told or have read, (also in the book)these dates can only come from secular dating, take out 539BCE and you wont have a point of referrence. Its a great book and I hope you put it to the test rather just quoting WT mags.

Spade

"Spade, if you do have Carl's book you would know that there are 14 lines of evidence against 607BCE and zero against 587BCE. You would also know that 607BCE idea came from a second adventist, this second adventist who adopted the idea from millinearies to link various scriptures to come up with the return of Christ (not the invicible return but the return to destroy), do you know what the bible says about people who prophecie Spade?

Despite what you have been told or have read, (also in the book)these dates can only come from secular dating, take out 539BCE and you wont have a point of referrence. Its a great book and I hope you put it to the test rather just quoting WT mags."

Carl O. Jonsson claims one line of evidence is business records.

http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/Chronlgy.htm

Rolf Furuli - Chronology and Babylonian Exile

The chronology of Parker and Dubberstein has been almost universally accepted for the last fifty years. According to P&D, the accession year of Nebuchadnezzar was 605 B.C.E and his destruction of Jerusalem occurred in 587 B.C.E. The conquest of Babylon by Cyrus occurred in 539, and the Persian Empire ended in 331 B.C.E., after the five-year reign of Darius III.

For the first time, this chronology has been challenged in a scholarly study. The tablets to which P&D refer have been studied afresh, and for the first time an attempt has been made to make a synthesis of all the tablets that contradict the traditional chronology and give a new interpretation to some of the old material.

The book is based on a study of the data from several thousand cuneiform tablets, including dated contracts and other business documents, and astronomical tablets giving the positions of the heavenly bodies in relation the each other and to the Zodiac in particular years. A careful analysis of relevant texts in Hebrew and Aramaic (the Elephantine Papyri) has been performed as well, and 400 modern sources have been used.

Some sources have been challenged, but no one has challenged the dated contracts and other business documents exhibited by Rolf Furuli.

w68 8/15 pp. 491-493 pars. 18-19 The Book of Truthful Historical Dates
Recognized authorities of today accept 539 B.C.E. without any question as the year Babylon was overthrown by Cyrus the Great. In addition to the above quotations the following gives a small sampling from books of history representing a cross section of both general reference works and elementary textbooks. These brief quotations also show that this is not a date recently suggested, but one thoroughly investigated and generally accepted for the past sixty years.

“Cyrus entered Babylon in 539 B.C.” (Encyclopœdia Britannica, 1946, Vol. 2, p. 852) “When Cyrus defeated the army of Nabonidus, Babylon itself surrendered, in Oct. 539, to the Persian general Gobryas.”—Ibid., Vol. 6, p. 930.

“In 539 B.C. Babylon fell without a struggle to the Achaemenid Persian, Cyrus the Great.”—The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956, Vol. III, p. 9.

“Babylon was captured by Cyrus in 539 B.C.”—Yale Oriental Series · Researches · Vol. XV, 1929, Nabonidus and Belshazzar, Dougherty, p. 46.

“The Persians took the city in 539 B.C.” (The World Book Encyclopedia, 1966, Vol. 2, p. 10) “In 539 B.C., the Persians conquered Babylonia.” (Ibid., p. 13) “Nabonidus, the last king of Chaldean Babylonia, who reigned from 555 to 539 B.C.”—Ibid, p. 193.

“The downfall of Lydia prepared the way for a Persian attack on Babylonia. The conquest of that country proved unexpectedly easy. In 539 B.C. the great city of Babylon opened its gates to the Persian hosts.”—Ancient History, Hutton Webster, 1913, p. 64.

“In 539 B.C. Babylon, too, was captured by Cyrus.”—The Story of the Ancient Nations, W. L. Westermann, 1912, p. 73.

(List continued...)

With the date 539 B.C.E. so firmly fixed and agreed to by so many scholars, we are quite confident where we stand today in relation to the fall of Babylon twenty-five centuries ago. October 6, 1968, will mark 2,506 years since the fall of that third world empire. Other important events which occurred prior to 539 may now be quite accurately dated. If one will accept the dates posted in the Bible, this becomes a rather easy matter, and some of the erroneous pitfalls into which traditional chronologers of Christendom have fallen will be avoided.

Two centuries earlier Jehovah by the mouth of his prophet Isaiah had declared: “[I am] the One saying of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, and all that I delight in he will completely carry out’; even in my saying of Jerusalem, ‘She will be rebuilt,’ and of the temple, ‘You will have your foundation laid.’” (Isa. 44:28) Without further delay this two-hundred-year-old prophecy was about to be fulfilled. Cyrus acceded to the throne and “in the first year” of his reign, at least before the spring of 537, “Jehovah roused the spirit of Cyrus.” He issued the famous edict permitting the Jews to return and rebuild Jehovah’s temple, copies of which were written and circulated throughout the realm. This allowed sufficient time for the Jews to resettle in their homeland, ‘establish the altar firmly upon its own site,’ and “from the first day of the seventh month” start offering up burnt sacrifices to Jehovah. This date, the “first day of the seventh month,” according to the best astronomical tables available, is calculated to be October 5 (Julian) or September 29 (Gregorian) 537 B.C.E.—Ezra 1:1-4; 3:1-6.

A person can go round and round analyzing archeology for details that conflict with 607 B.C.E. for the date of Jerusalem's destruction but enough evidence has been presented to solidify the timetables. It's also beneficial to step back and look at the big picture to understand where we are in the stream of time.

SweetBabyCheezits

It's also beneficial to step back and look at the big picture to understand where we are in the stream of time.

I nominate this for funniest quote of the week from someone who believes man has only existed for around 6,000 years.

Spade

"I nominate this for funniest quote of the week from someone who believes man has only existed for around 6,000 years."

The evidence for ancient legacies like the Sumerian's (4000 B.C.E. and beyond) are quite baseless. Try allocating some radiocarbon dated evidence for this civilization that indicates it spans more than 6000 years of human history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_astronomy

According to Asger Aaboe, the origins of Western astronomy can be found in Mesopotamia, and all Western efforts in the exact sciences are descendants in direct line from the work of the late Babylonian astronomers. Our knowledge of Sumerian astronomy is indirect, via the earliest Babylonian star catalogues dating from about 1200 BCE. The fact that many star names appear in Sumerian suggests a continuity reaching into the Early Bronze Age.

DanaBug

Spade,

Try allocating some radiocarbon dating for this civilization that indicates it spans more than 6000 years of human history.

Human ancestry studied through mitochondrial dna. Look it up. There's a lot more evidence than just those two things. Ignore mountains of evidence all you want, but don't be surprised when no one wants to debate you about it. It doesn't mean you're right, it means it's a waste of our time.

The Gentile Times Reconsidered

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