Help w/ Bible Teach ch 9 section "Major Developments of the Last Days"

by InterestedOne 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • InterestedOne
    InterestedOne

    I'm in ch 9 in my study, and we will go over the section "Major Developments of the Last Days" (pars 6-9) next week. Although I don't see anything special in pars 7-9, I think par 6 allows the JW's to strike a chord with people, and I was wondering if anyone could help me with how to respond to it. They are able to quote real figures in that paragraph such as "three times as many people fell victim to war in [the 20th] century as in all the wars from the first century AD to 1899."

    As I read pars 7-9 carefully, I can easily point out that they don't actually say there was an increase in food shortages, earthquakes, or diseases. They simply state that these things continue - which does nothing to support the idea that the 20th century holds some special prophetic significance. However, the figures for war casualties do appear significant. I am wondering what I can say to my study conductor if he puts me on the spot with the immensity of the war death figures for the 20th century. I have to be clear and to the point. He tends to be emotionally driven and only uses "logic" when it suits him.

    One good thing is that I have gotten him to commit to stay on-topic in the line of thinking established in par 22-23 of the previous chapter. I've gotten him to admit that the author of the booklet is saying there is "evidence" for the claims those paragraphs make about 1914. He assured me that chapter 9 would provide me with the "evidence." So here we are, examining the "evidence." Like I said, pars 7-9 do not look like evidence to me, but par 6 kind of has me stumped.

  • DanaBug
    DanaBug

    Ask him for that source so you can see it. Also, wouldn't there be more victims since there are more people and the wars involved several countries? Are there actually more wars now than back then or are there more people involved? Maybe ask him how far back war victim/casualty records go? Can they even make that statement if we don't have enough evidence for that time period?

    Imo, if any period of time fit the last days I think it's the dark ages. Things really sucked back then. Glad I'm alive now.

  • DanaBug
    DanaBug

    How do they define victims of war?

    Check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll

    And this has lots of sources for before the 20th century http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat0.htm

    Adding up the low numbers (wiki, first chart) for before the 20th century gets 189 million casualties. After 20th cen it's 70.3. Then you can add in genocides including the holocaust and famines. There were more famines before the 20th cen but greater casualties because of China. But then you can add in victims of colonization like Native Americans and Asia and the slave trade. Honestly, I think that quote is bogus and you could probably verify that by finding the source.

  • InterestedOne
    InterestedOne

    Good point about genocide, victims of colonization, and the slave trade.

  • AiAi
    AiAi

    The Watchtower's quote is directly in context from an article published by Worldwatch in 1999. Worldwatch made their conclusion from a 1991 article by William Ekhart called "War-Related Deaths Since 3000 BC". Interestingly he acknowledges in his article that previous research had shown that "war-related deaths have been of the same intensity throughout historical time"

    Either way not proof of anything since there have always been wars and reports of wars

  • InterestedOne
    InterestedOne

    Thank you AiAi. I will see if I can find the article by William Eckhardt. I am curious to see what he means by same "intensity" throughout historical time. How does he define "intensity?" Also, good point about "wars and rumors of wars."

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Let him have a day off explaining every little detail to give him the impression you are a good student and a potential recruit. Then he will try harder when you get to your really difficult questions.

    Patience is a virtue.

    Chris

  • Alfred
    Alfred

    Interested One...

    You might also ask him if the founder of the WT (Russell) predicted an increase in wars just prior to Armageddon... I'd be really interested to know how he responds.

  • the-illuminator81
    the-illuminator81

    A blatant society lie. There were many more war related deaths before 1914 than after. Not too mention plagues in the middle ages were terrible, much worse than anything we have ever experienced after 1914. There is also no increase in earthquakes. Famines were also much deadlier before 1914.

    Please read these pages: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/last-days.php and http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/earthquakes.php

  • Reader1
    Reader1

    I forget what is in that chapter specifically.

    Jesus said that by ALL THESE signs that you would know that the end is near. So far, they have only shown that ONE of these signs has changed. It goes to the olive tree illustration that he used, knowing when spring is to be near.

    If the four horseman of the apocalypse are used, point out that the second last one is food shortages. However, the single biggest health issue facing the western world is OBESITY. It just doesn't add up.

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