JW's not a cult (page 7)

unshackled

Twitch...yes you are right.

Just saying that trolls do what they do solely for reactions. If they don't get reactions, they go away.

OnTheWayOut

For the sake of those on here who want to argue semantics and definitions:

I hate when people try to "defend" JW's by attacking words like "cult." Words are just words. They grow and change.
Yes, every frickin' belief that started a following could have been called a "cult" until it seemed "normal" instead of "abnormal."

(The basis for becoming "normal" would seem to be that a huge percentage of the population became believers.)

"Cult" came to be associated with Jim Jones or Heaven's Gate or the Hare Krishnas and the Moonies, groups that never became "normal."

"Cult" has come to be known for groups with a charismatic leader today, groups that do everything for that leader. WTS still sort of fits that bill, but not exactly enough that people won't argue whether they are a cult.

I skip assigning "cult" to Jehovah's Witnesses for the sake of the people who want to argue definitions and go right to calling them a "dangerous mind-control cult." I know there are plenty of people who think "mind-control" is where the members are doing stuff that people wouldn't do unless they were hypnotized practically all the time or they were brainwashed through some torture methods until they were unable to think for themselves, but that is simply not the case. "Mind-control" is just exerting some measure of control over the mind. It can be subtle and continuous instead of some kind of electro-shock or torture. "Mind-control" in the JW's is truly undeniable. The organization tells the members what to avoid reading, what goals to set and not to set for life including education and employment, they tell the members how to feel about former members and outsiders, they make children afraid of birthday cake at school or adults afraid of people saying "God bless you" when they sneeze. Their mind-control is maintained through fear of Jehovah, fear of losing family, continuous reinforcement at meetings and in reading WT materials.

The only arguable part is really how dangerous WTS's mind-control really is. When they tell you to die before accepting blood and to let your children die, it's too dangerous. When they tell grandparents and parents to shun teenagers that decide to leave the religion, it's dangerous. The rest, you can argue until you turn blue in the face, but as long as a few parts are as dangerous as that, Watchtower fits the bill of "dangerous mind-control cult."

Nickolas

If it looks like a , walks like a and quacks like a , it's a .

Mad Sweeney

I like your point, OTWO. It really doesn't matter what you call it and in fact, the debate over the word is used by JWs as a distraction from the main point: the dangerous control over the autonomy of members.

They're skilled at the art of distraction and obfuscation. We're better off not even going there.

Alwayshere

Nickolas, Liked the way you put it.

chigaimasmaro

I have to agree with OnTheWayOut... because if you look at it, when Jesus first appeared and started preaching, the Jewish and Roman alike felt he was preaching radical concepts and was speaking blasphemy and starting a cult.

From what I've seen myself first hand and what's been written secularly about modern day religions, the JW organization doesn't seem to be a cult in my opinion. The JW's publish a magazine and openly talk about what they do and most of what they do is done in plain sight. So I try to skip calling them a cult because I personally don't think it fits that defintion.

To me, the JW's are a non-profit (legally anyway) publishing company, where direct voluntary recruitment is done to increase numbers (Research ACN's direct selling Multi-level Marketing if you want a 'FOR PROFIT' example). Instead of using a written contract, a verbal one is used with legal witnesses upon accepting membership and your baptism is visual acceptance of the contract. If you were from the outside and just heard about the JW organization, you could literally walk into a convention, sit and watch this process. The unfortunate part is the high level of corporate control and micro-management that exist from the top authority in NY, all the way down to the family level. Also, when there is a breach of the contract or there is a suspicion of such actions, the loss a member suffers isnt monetarily based. Aherence to the contract and the paradigm of the corporation is very strict (not very different from other commercial corporations)

This isn't a cult, but a well organized corporate entity that sells a spiritual concept based on Charles T. Russell's research.

VM44

It's a cult.

Headquaters at Brooklyn and Patterson, New York.

"Official" leaders are the Governinbody Body members.

Everything printed in the Watchtower magazines and books is to be believed and followed.

No differning views are permitted upon threat of "disfellowshipping."

What's the big deal? Call it what it is.

It's a cult.

Mad Sweeney

From what I've seen myself first hand and what's been written secularly about modern day religions, the JW organization doesn't seem to be a cult in my opinion.

Could you explain what you have seen firsthand and what secular definitions of "cult" you've read that lead you to your conclusion?

Most of us here feel like if a group uses a significant number of Lifton's thought reform methods or Hassan's BITE mind control activities then the term "cult" is appropriate. Technically speaking, considering itself uniquely legitimate is the mark of a sect rather than a cult (which is technically pluralistic), but the vast majority of people use "cult" to describe dangerous religions that use mind control methods such as those laid out by Lifton, Hassan, and others.

What definition, other than the "cults follow a charismatic individual leader" that the Watchtower invented for the JWs to use, lets the Watchtower off the hook?

VM44

"cults follow a charismatic individual leader"

That definition LITERALLY applied to the Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses when Pastor Russell and "Judge" Rutherford were alive and leading the JWs!

There was a cult following of those two men.

Nathan Knorr was not a charismatic man, and made The Watchotwer more into the nature of an organizational bureaucracy.

That does not mean it ceased being a cult!

chigaimasmaro

I, myself was part of the organization for 31 years, my father was an elder, my mom was a regular pioneer, and older brother is currently serving as elder and is also now being considered for a CO position. I've had one sibiling disassociate himself and another that just faded away before my own departure occured last year. I was bapitzed at 17 and pioneered in various capacities many times. So I've had quite a history with the JW organization. But I'm good, I'll leave you all to your opinions.

JW's not a cult

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