Anyone With Major Judicial/Service Department Experience?

by A question 27 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  dozy

  No direct experience but I do know of several examples where whole bodies of elders have been removed & congregations have even been disbanded. Usually it happens when complete bodies of elders are in constant in-fighting or there is rampant nepotism or other problems. A special committee is formed of senior JWs (usually existing or ex-circuit overseers or long established R&F elders) to investigate and report to the Branch.

  When a whole body of elders are removed , then elders from neighbouring congregations take over. The branch tries to encourage other elders to move in permanently. Usually some of the removed elders regain their position in time.

  If the problems are really serious and it is viable , then the congregation is disbanded and the JWs are re-allocated amongst neighbouring congregations.

  On many occasions perfectly innocent elders are removed , even some who have tried to act like peacemakers in difficult situations. This is because Special Committees generally take a "root & branch" approach and often feel it is best just to remove everybody and then brothers can try to regain their privileges. I know many elders innocently caught up in this kind of situation and it never fails to cause serious resentment.

  These situations are not uncommon - I've known of several over the years.
• 

  snakeface

  I know of a case where the PO was having an affair with a publisher's wife. Many of us did not know about it though. Suddenly we had 2 new brothers start attending our Hall - one from the congregation to the east of us, and one from the west of us. They were elders and immediately started giving meeting parts, conducting book studies, etc. They said they were asked to come and help us cover our territory, and left it at that.Within a couple of months the PO was df'd and 2 other elders were removed; all 3 of these moved away. A year or so later the two elders from the neighboring congregations went back to their own Halls.

  Here's an example of a MS being removed by the Society: Me. When I was a "prominent" MS, I befriended an elder in another part of the state who also served as a substitute CO at times. This elder invited me to share in various aspects of the ministry with him in his area whenever I visited him. My own elders had mixed feelings about it, and said basically, "Well...as long as it doesn't take time away from your responsibilities here...we need you here.." but they never specifically told me NOT to. (I have to point out that at this time I was single, giving public talks and doing many things in the circuit, working 50 hours a week, and putting in about 26 hours a month in the ministry and sometimes aux pioneering.) Some time later I found out that this elder friend and my current CO had been at odds with each for a some time. Each one would talk bad about the other to me and each told me not to listen to the other. Eventually the CO told me specifically to "tell [elder and his wife] goodbye'" and that Jehovah assigned me to serve in my own territory. I continued anyway, visiting this elder friend and his wife and going in the ministry with them. My elders were aware of this. Then the CO's two years were up and he moved on. Afterward my elders told me they received a letter from the Society instructing them to remove me as a MS immediately. I did not lose any other privileges; I could still comment at meetings, be in the ministry school and so on. The elders told me they did not want to do this but since it came from the Society they had to, and that they would inform the Society that I showed repentance. "whatever"
• 

  Mad Sweeney

  Snakeface, you made the mistake of living as if you were a free man. JWs aren't allowed to do what they please; they must do what they're told or there will be consequences. I'd love to see what the CO said about you in his final report to the Borg Queen as he left your circuit. Interesting he didn't have the guts to get you removed while he was still there. What a tool.

  Now that you're here (and I presume OUT of the Borg) what's your relationship with the long distance elder friend? If that's too much info I'm asking for, just tell me none of my business; I understand.
• 

  minimus

  Informative thread for anyone who doesn't understand Watchtower politics.
• 

  snakeface

  Mad Sweeny, at the time this all came down, I called the elder friend but did not mention it. I called just to schedule a visit. He told me to come on a specific Sunday as he was giving the public talk, and we'd all go out to eat afterward. When I showed up, the people there said he had a talk scheduled out that day. I had already driven over 2 hours to get there, so I stayed for the meeting. Of course everyone knew me as a regular visitor and friend of this elder, so they invited me to go out to lunch with them, a group of about 12 people. At the restaurant I exchanged phone numbers and email addresses with some of them. A few days later I emailed one or two and found out they had blocked me. One, an elder's wife, replied something like, "I have no idea who you are and do not know how you got hold of my email address.." I called the elder friend, left a message saying "sorry I missed you, call me so we can get together again.." but he didn't return my call.

  A few months later I was told by reliable sources that the CO had stopped serving as a CO and was now in a local congregation. Meanwhile my elders started asking me to do the microphones and sound system. I told them they should do it themselves; I did it before and look at the thanks I got from the Society. And while we're at it let someone else put in 26 hours a month in the field ministry. Maybe one of them? Then I quit going to meetings. NO ONE ever called or came by the house. A year later I started attending a Hall two circuits away and had my publisher card sent there. All was well. Within a few months those elders started offering me privileges, asking me to conduct the field service mtg and so on. I simply just didn't show up anymore. And to this day NO ONE has called or stopped by the house.

  I had figured out that the CO had me removed, and my elders had gotten chewed out for not preventing me from associating with this elder friend. But to cover their asses they probably said they had counseled me but I didn't listen to them. Why else would they report back to the Society that I showed repentance?
• 

  pontoon

  A QUESTION I was a dub for 40+ yrs. Served for 20 yrs. The senario I laid out in my post yesterday is a general description of how I've seen these situations go. I remember three times when this has happened, once in my congo, a long time ago before I served, but I doubt there was one person in our congo that didn't know what was going on. The problem, as mentioned in other posts was a dysfuntional BOE, during a time that our congo NEEDED a funtioning BOE. I won't comment on that specific. One bro. sent in actually moved into our territory, another brother commuted into our territory. I don't know if those two bros. worked or even knew each other before.

  Another time was in another state in my brother in law's congo. For years he would tell me how bad his BOE was, he was a ex-bethelite, pioneer, elder, and had loose lips. I guess he felt he could confide in me. When the clean-up boys were sent into his congo he was one of the ones removed. Moved to another congo with a much better "spirit" according to him and was after some time appointed. Not too long after, that body was no good........got to make a long (years) story short. Moved to another state and was appointed. On visits and phone conversations he started to complain about that BOE. I eventually told him that he seemed to be the common denominator on all these problem BOE's. After that he no longer confided in me, but he was removed or forced to step down. He didn't move, but he changed congos. He is presently serving. It's a saga........on & on and I feel bad for my sister.

  Third time was in a nearby congo. Don't know much about it. Just bros. were sent in, cleaned it up and left.
• 

  snakeface

  And in my case there was not even a committee of any kind. It was just the PO and the service overseer who told me they received the letter from the Society.

  I guess there were things going on that I was not even aware of. Maybe the elder friend had gotten removed too. I don't know and of course I don't care now. If he was a friend he would have at least returned my call. I at least was mature enough to tell people (friends in other congregations) that I was no longer a MS "because it was felt I was no longer meeting the requirements..."
• 

  A question

  Thanks for all the responses, it's been helpful. So from what I see here, when serious problems arise, such as infighting among a body of elders, or covering up some sin, elders from neighboring congregations ("troubleshooters") are sent in, either temporarily or permanently, to try and fix the problem, perhaps by removing some or all of the elders, or even disbanding the congregation.

  I suppose my question now is, What does it take on the Society's end to send in troubleshooters? Is there anyone here from the Service Department? Does it take one complaint, or multiple, or a pattern of complaints of the same type? Or all cases of "troubleshooting" initiated by the local CO?
• 

  RayPublisher

  Snakeface:

  You got caught up in the politics of the situation bro. I hate that sh!t and saw it happen many times during the years I was an elder. It's not supposed to happen that way but people are imperfect. You have every right to be angry about it but it sounds like you have moved on and that's good.
• 

  snakeface

  Thanks RayPublisher. Actually I was never angry about it. It was an eye opener. That's when I realized I had been serving the Society rather than God. My congregation had a serious shortage of brothers. The elders were in their 70's with health problems making it difficult for them to get onto the stage. As a MS I conducted the Theocratic ministry school, gave public talks including the special talk. On Thursday I'd conduct the school, have a service mtg part, be in a demonstration, cover the sound board during the other parts so that brother could come up and do his mtg part, do territories and accounts and help with literature. On Sundays if I didn't have the public talk I'd be on the sound board, then I'd be the WT reader. On Tues I'd conduct a book study. And sometimes I'd carry mikes, working both aisles. So deleting me as a MS hurt the elders more than it hurt me. I realized they were puppets. When they wanted to start giving me "privileges" again I was already starting to leave, mentally. from that point on I was just sorting things out in my mind and started lurking on this board.